Be Our Guest, Gustav Mahler!

[Ezra]

Amid Amidi from Cartoon Brew pointed out a distinct similarity between Alan Menkin's song "Be Our Guest" from Beauty and the Beast and a dance-like theme from the first movement of Gustav Mahler's Symphony No. 3. Here is the accompanying video:
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I own Gustav Mahler 10 Symphonies by the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Rafael Kubelik. So I already knew about the similarities between "Be Our Guest" and Mahler's Symphony No. 3, but never even thought to mention it. It's very common for popular music composers to draw from classical sources, especially for movie scores.

In fact, classical composers adopt themes from popular songs as well. Bach, Beethoven and Mozart are particularly notorious for borrowing "street songs" for some of their lighter works. This borrowing was not only accepted, but encouraged, especially among the Romantics. Rachmaninoff played piano in movie houses for a living, and Prokofiev scored films. It's only natural that classical and popular music inter-marry.

Gustav Mahler borrowed not only from drinking-songs heard in his father's Bavarian tavern, but also from marches played by a local military band in his hometown.

In the context of the symphony, this music comes as a relief, after a bombastic fanfare, and nearly ten minutes of a slow, tense, march reminiscent of a funeral dirge. Here is the theme slowly unfolding, only to be interrupted by the dirge again and again...
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...this dance-like theme is nearly swallowed by other themes. But after adopting the tonality of the opening fanfare, and the heaviness of the dirge, and the crispness of the marching band, the theme emerges again, triumphant:
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Composers know good music when they hear it. It's irresistible, regardless of the discipline it's from.

I'll leave you with this... the romance between the Land of Symphony and the Isle of Jazz... From Walt Disney's Silly Symphonies' Music Land.
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[Wedbliss]

The old saying goes that bad composers borrow but good composers steal. Yes, there are about 4 measures where it sounds like Alan Menken, probably unconsciously, stole a Mahler melody but Menken goes on to take the theme in a completely different direction. I don't think Mahler would sue.

Musical plagiarism is always a tough subject. By the end of the 19th century virtually every harmonic combination had been used. It's almost impossible for any tonal piece of music to be completely original. Everything tonal is derived from something else that has come before.

Yes, Menken quoted Mahler. Was it intentional? I'm guessing not. Certainly, Menken had heard Mahler's No. 3, but it's funny how music can worm it's way into a persons unconscious mind only to surface later.

Also, the melody seems a bit too lyrical for Mahler. Perhaps the Maestro himself borrowed it from some street tune he may have heard. Either way, Mahler's No. 3 is in the public domain, so quote away Mr. Menken.

[reggroyx9d9]

Thanks for the insight, Ezra! Another fun musical similarity: Gustav Holst's Mars and Star Wars by John Williams.

[Ezra]

Musical plagiarism is always a tough subject...

Yes, Menken quoted Mahler. Was it intentional? I'm guessing not. Certainly, Menken had heard Mahler's No. 3, but it's funny how music can worm it's way into a persons unconscious mind only to surface later.

Also, the melody seems a bit too lyrical for Mahler. Perhaps the Maestro himself borrowed it from some street tune he may have heard.

I'm not so sure it's too lyrical for Mahler. There are plenty of lyrical themes in Mahler's work, they're just not the first thing that comes to mind. Mainly because they are usually overwhelmed by darker, more intense themes; or they spin out of control and become warped, twisted and maniacal, rather like the organ playing in the Haunted Mansion Ballroom...

Even if Menken borrowed a tune from Mahler intentionally, that doesn't detract from the quality of his work one bit. In fact, I think it speaks well of his cleverness. There are plenty of little bits of arangement that are similar too; the ooh's called out by the silverware that match the chorus of flutes in the symphony. Still, Be Our Guest is a derivative work, a new arrangement put to a completely different purpose; I woudln't call it plagarism.

On the other hand, if I were looking to steal a lighthearted, catchy tune for a musical, Mahler isn't exactly the first place I'd look. I'd likely go to Strauss, Bizet, Mozart, or Tchaikovsky. So, if it is an intentional reworking, it's a brilliant one.

Also, I like the idea that a melody which probably originated in a Bavarian tavern, came to us though a heavy ponderous work by Mahler, only to return to it's roots as a cabaret number — only this time, it's a 1930's-style Maurice Chevalier number choreographed by Busby Berkeley.

Thanks for the insight, Ezra! Another fun musical similarity: Gustav Holst's Mars and Star Wars by John Williams.

Williams uses a lot of classical music in his scores. It's a Hollywood tradition. What makes score composers like John Williams so brilliant is the way the source material is woven in, so that it's all of a piece, as if cut from a single cloth. With John williams everything serves the story.

In lesser hands, classical references can be eye-rollingly bad. "Here's a shot of a country estate — plop in a Brandenberg here." : "Here's a spring meadow — drop in a Gymnopιdies." : "Lovers embracing? — cue Tchaikovski's Romeo and Juliet." :