Epcot Is Dying

[HMF]

Today i heard the horrible news that the Living Seas will be totally taken over by Nemo and friends. EPCOT is no longer what it should be. It is turning into another Magic Kingdom.The real world element is slowly fading. I am angry and i will not stand by this. It is time to bring EPCOT back to its former glory.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

The Nemo overlay to The Living Seas is old news. While it's another movie-based theme invasion of an attraction, I hardly think Epcot's spirit is dying because of it. I don't think this is like the Pirates movie-additions at all. I think the Nemo characters here are there to help kids learn about the Seas, but I could be wrong. I need to understand more of the context & role the Nemo characters have here before I can call this either way.

-- PMM

[BCC]

Wasn't this the way it was for a LONG time?

[DisneyParksFan]

Originally Posted by PeoplemoverMatt

I think the Nemo characters here are there to help kids learn about the Seas, but I could be wrong. I need to understand more of the context & role the Nemo characters have here before I can call this either way.

-- PMM

I think that they are used for educational purposes as well as a movie tie-in.

-mickey2006

[Cutthroat CGM]

You called it, Matt and Mickey. Nemo and friends are there to help introduce the wonders of the sea to the kids, not to hog the spotlight. (Well, except for Crush, but that's another story.) It's just a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down.

It is turning into another Magic Kingdom.The real world element is slowly fading. It is time to bring EPCOT back to its former glory.

Former glory indeed. To quote a Billy Joel song, "Y'know the good ol' days weren't always good, and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems." In the 80's and early 90's, the main gripe with the park was "too much education, not enough entertainment." Back when Eisner started making major changes in '94, EPCOT's attendance was dropping like a rock. Say what you will about Ellen, Test Track, Mission Space and Soarin', but they put butts in the seats (to use a wrestling expression) as Exxon's UOE, WOM, Horizons and Kitchen Kabaret/Food Rocks never could. There's nothing wrong with the park right now.

Well, nothing that another country or two in WS, the resurrection of the original JII and a few barrels of TNT at the base of the wand wouldn't cure...

[DisneyParksFan]

Originally Posted by Cutthroat CGM

You called it, Matt and Mickey. Nemo and friends are there to help introduce the wonders of the sea to the kids, not to hog the spotlight. (Well, except for Crush, but that's another story.) It's just a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down.

It is turning into another Magic Kingdom.The real world element is slowly fading. It is time to bring EPCOT back to its former glory.

Former glory indeed. To quote a Billy Joel song, "Y'know the good ol' days weren't always good, and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems." In the 80's and early 90's, the main gripe with the park was "too much education, not enough entertainment." Back when Eisner started making major changes in '94, EPCOT's attendance was dropping like a rock. Say what you will about Ellen, Test Track, Mission Space and Soarin', but they put butts in the seats (to use a wrestling expression) as Exxon's UOE, WOM, Horizons and Kitchen Kabaret/Food Rocks never could. There's nothing wrong with the park right now.

Well, nothing that another country or two in WS, the resurrection of the original JII and a few barrels of TNT at the base of the wand wouldn't cure...

One word: Nice




Because of the type of park it is, the Education and the Thrill Factors will always be pushing back and forth. Sometimes one will come out on top while the other falls below. Then another push happens, education is key and thrill is pushed into the shadows.
The world is always changing.
Remember what one finds bad, another finds good.


-mickey2006

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Originally Posted by mickey2005

Remember what one finds bad, another finds good.

I'm sorry but this is post-modernist hogwash. Bad is bad, good is good regardless of what color glasses you're looking at it through.

-- PMM

[DisneyParksFan]

Originally Posted by PeoplemoverMatt

I'm sorry but this is post-modernist hogwash. Bad is bad, good is good regardless of what color glasses you're looking at it through.

-- PMM

I was saying that somebody might find an educational attraction boring (bad) while another looks at it as being enjoyable experience (good). :)


-mickey2006

[monorailred]

EPCOT is great. I too miss the WOM, Horizons, and the ORIGINAL JII. It would have been great to have Mission Space and Test Track be additions to the park, but their transformations are great attractions. That cannot be said about JII. EPCOT is not dying - it is evolving.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Originally Posted by mickey2005

I was saying that somebody might find an educational attraction boring (bad) while another looks at it as being enjoyable experience (good). :)


-mickey2006

While I don't want to hijack this thread into a good/bad debate, good/bad really isn't the issue regarding the edutainment. I might find it interesting, others might be bored to death, but that's just reaction. People react based on their value systems usually, and there's where good/bad is really found. People can debate it over & over but it still won't change what good/bad really are. That's a condensed nutshell but in the interest of keeping on topic, that's all I'll say about that.

Epcot must change over time as consumer demand changes over time. What we might be seeing because of the negative reaction to Mission Space is a turn away from the 'thrilling' and back to the calmer high quality edutainment seen in attractions such a Spaceship Earth. This I believe is healthy for the long term because it fits with Disney's niche demographic. Disney wants to build rides enjoyable for all ages, usually not one age over another like the teen-friendly scream parks. This is most easily achieved by building the high quality edutainment attractions mixed in with moderate thrills, as seen in Mission Space Team Green.

-- PMM

[turlaach]

Now I don't really want to get into the Good/Bad debate, but of course I have to! I would say these are opinions, facts are different. Good and Bad as a fact cannot be changed. But as an opinion its open to debate, there is no fixed answer. For instance I say that the pirates changes are good, other say they're bad. But the reality is that theyre good and bad in different ways, so they'res no fixed answer. We return to opinions. This is of course, my opinion

Meanwhile, back on topic I think this

Originally Posted by Cutthroat CGM

It's just a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down.

pretty much sums it up for me!

[DisneyParksFan]

Originally Posted by PeoplemoverMatt

While I don't want to hijack this thread into a good/bad debate, good/bad really isn't the issue regarding the edutainment. I might find it interesting, others might be bored to death, but that's just reaction. People react based on their value systems usually, and there's where good/bad is really found. People can debate it over & over but it still won't change what good/bad really are. That's a condensed nutshell but in the interest of keeping on topic, that's all I'll say about that.
-- PMM

Ok, I see what you are saying.


A feel that the problem is that they cant really add on to Epcot because of the way the park was designed. I mean sure, they can out in a few little things here and there. But if they truly wanted to add on another major attraction, it involves the taking down of another. The pavailions were designed a little too close together to add in another major attraction without it being a little bit out the way. Now it is possible to add one in, but it could be difficult.

Maybe to 'bring back the magic' they could try some new Future World Closing light show throughout Innoventions Plaza, East Side and West Side. It could take place a little before Illuminations; just a thought.
It could include the Disney magic touch with a futuristic feel and have it say something about Future World is now closing and about how to dreams of today pave the way of the visions of tomorrow. <----- something along those lines :)


-mickey2005

[LoehnWolf]

I think its all about matter of tastes. I know people who think Spaceship Earth is boring. I know people who think its the best ride there. You cant please every taste. BUT, I think with parks today utilizing new technology and larger thrills alot of people, especially kids are bored with Epcot. Ok let me correct that. They like Test Track and Mission Space and then they get antsy almost anywhere else. So yeah I think Epcot needs to mix a little thrill with a little learning.Kids today arent as easily amused as when I was growing up.

[Space_Mt.]

As long as we don't get Buzz Lightyear's Norway or The Incredible's Morrocco then i'm fine.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

^ Unfortunately, that could easily happen. I mean if Mulan came out in 2006, you know someone would propose a new Mulan-themed attraction in Japan. Should Disney ever have a Mexican character, the Mexican IASW there now had better watch out. That's the current mindset now & it's very very sad.

-- PMM