Camcorders

[Imjustpeachy]

This seemed the best place to ask such a question :smile:

Alright, I'm going to be going to Disneyland in August and as an early 20th Birthday present to myself, I would like to get a comcorder. However, I don't know what would be better. A DV camcorder or mini DVD? I would appreciate knowing the pros and cons of both. It'd be cool to have on my trip and just in general. I have a Canon digital camera which i use and still love, but I'd like something with a little better quality and something that could take better videos. I'm going with my boyfriend and it's right before I move back home and I'd like something that's affordable but great enough to use to make a documentary/virtual scrapbook with.

Thanks in advance everybody :cool:

[Piglet]

I highly recommend a minidv recorder--they are smaller, easy to use and you get great quality. My only complaint about them is that sometimes they "digitize' when you're recording, but it has not happened very often. I'd ask RU42 for his opinion.

[Imjustpeachy]

from what i'm seen, they're alot cheaper too =P thanks so much Piglet for your info! yah, i think i will ask RU

[GreenLantern13]

I like DV over straight to DVD. There are numerous advantages. However it appears a lot of the companies have decided to stop developing the DV format and have put a lot of their efforts into DVD or the HDR camcorders.. so the technical specs on DV camcorders have sort of hit the wall. There are still some great ones out there, I did a bunch of research figuring out which one I was gonna get.. and for your needs(assuming this is just casual recording) that wall i just mentioned probably won't even be a factor, just thought I should mention it.

My only complaint about them is that sometimes they "digitize' when you're recording
Any of these recording formats are digitizing the image, and if it ever messes up while you're recording that's an unusual problem related to the camera but not an effect of the media you're recording onto. I haven't had any problems of it showing digitization on my videos yet. There is one thing I suggest though for whatever media your camera records to... check the format it records them in. I recommend against motion jpeg..the newer cameras have strayed away from that now fortunately. Look for mpeg, avi, dv, etc.. it's all the same. But it'll explicitly say if it's motion jpeg.. at its highest quality, motion-jpeg can be better than the digital video saved in other formats but it's a very loose standard and you might end up with a poor codec in your camera.

[Piglet]

Any of these recording formats are digitizing the image, and if it ever messes up while you're recording that's an unusual problem related to the camera but not an effect of the media you're recording onto.
The digitizing I'm referring to is caused by either dirty tape or dirty heads. In his work, my husband records 8-10 hours a day of video onto minidv tapes, and has found that this is why digitizing occurs. It affects the final product, if the image is recorded distorted, it cannot be repaired. He advises to only use high quality tapes and do not reuse them--he finds that re-using tapes is what causes the digitizing problem.

[tony]

This seemed the best place to ask such a question :smile:

Alright, I'm going to be going to Disneyland in August and as an early 20th Birthday present to myself, I would like to get a comcorder. However, I don't know what would be better. A DV camcorder or mini DVD? I would appreciate knowing the pros and cons of both. It'd be cool to have on my trip and just in general. I have a Canon digital camera which i use and still love, but I'd like something with a little better quality and something that could take better videos. I'm going with my boyfriend and it's right before I move back home and I'd like something that's affordable but great enough to use to make a documentary/virtual scrapbook with.


your better off with a minidv. the quality is better since it's filming in DV quality. plus the dvds have to transcode on the fly as you burn the info to the dvd. yuk we have software for that. ;)

[Imjustpeachy]

thanks guys, you're helping me out =)

now, actually...the question is, where could i buy one? I've been researching and Fry's seems more reasonable.

[GreenLantern13]

The digitizing I'm referring to is caused by either dirty tape or dirty heads.

ah okay tape distortion. eh. i don't think i'm concerned over that enough to go to dvds. i do want an HDR but i haven't had problems at all with minidv in the meantime, and apparently sony's tapes are pretty good about it.

and like tony said, recording in DV as opposed to the compression the DVD players are using keeps the quality up a bit. and if you keep the quality the same it takes a few dvds(like three-ish) to get the same amount of recording time as a minidv tape.

[Where'sYourLaughinPlace?]

Yeah, I use miniDV also and it is great. Video quality is marvelous, especially when I upload onto my mac.....beautiful video quality for making movies.

[Mighty Unicorn]

I like the Mini DV camcorder. I recorded a ton of footage on my last trip, and it turned out WONDERFULLY! :)

The tapes can be expensive at the park, so be sure to find a good deal on them somewhere before you go and start shooting.

Also, an extended-life battery is a good idea.

The digitizing effect that has been listed by Piglet is a very real possibility with the quality of your footage. The best way to avoid this is to use a fresh Mini DV tape every time you reload.

Re-using tapes can cause HUGE problems, especially if you plan on uploading your video to your computer in order to build a DVD. What happens is this: there is a timestamp on the tape. When you re-use the tapes, the timelines can get odd skips in them. Then, when you go to edit the footage on your computer, it causes all types of artifacts from past video images, and if the mentioned timeline is corrupted (in other words, if it's not totally continuous), the footage will be rendered useless for computer editing and splicing.

So, grab your camcorder, your NEW tapes, and shoot away! You will not be disappointed if you go this route. Also, may I recommend a Sony camcorder (mine was the DCR-HC30)... excellent lens, awesome interface, and the nightshot is EXCELLENT. Also, the zoom is hardly anything to sneeze at...

Happy shooting, and an even more happy trip to you!!!

Hans

[GreenLantern13]

Yeah that's another issue... pricing ;) The miniDV tapes are going for 3.33 each(9.99 for a pack of 3).. well I use sony's and those are that much anyways. Each tape records ~60 minutes(sp mode)

I haven't looked too much so correct me if i'm wrong but i'm seeing between 8-13 bucks for a dvd.. and that's 30 minutes each(assuming you're doing full quality.. if it compresses the video more you can get more time in it but with lesser quality)

[Mighty Unicorn]

You are right in the media cost department...

The thing about DVD camcorders is that they are kind of made for those who want something ready to slam into a DVD player, in my opinion...

MiniDV is cheap, cheap cheap for tapes if you really look around. Check Costco, and if you have the time to wait for shipping check Ebay and NewEgg.com

Those are great places to get good deals. I recommend getting at least 3 tapes per day, and then you can shoot in quantity and then go back and edit like crazy on your PC.

Have you done any video editing on a PC before? If so, then ignore what I am about to say.

For the newbie editor, Adobe Premier Elements is AWESOME!!! It's a drag and drop utility with plenty of pre-made themes and menu screens, and the buttons are so easy to create and put graphics to (For every scene I labeled, I used and actual video frame from the scene!). It's all cut and paste, drag and drop, and it's soooo easy to put your own custom background music on it as well. Also, there are INCREDIBLE scene blending patches that you just drag into place between scenes, and it makes smooth audio and video transitions between cuts.

So, if you have any more questions, please write again!

:)

Hans

[tony]

thanks guys, you're helping me out =)

now, actually...the question is, where could i buy one? I've been researching and Fry's seems more reasonable.

first off what is your budget?

[GreenLantern13]

find some models you like and look on http://www.pricegrabber.com. I ended up getting mine off of http://www.butterflyphoto.com and I don't even remember the site I got my still camera from heh.

[Imjustpeachy]

i don't really mind the price, but it would be nice to find anything of quality less than $400 please =)

[RU42]

Well, since I am mentioned in this thread, I guess I will jump in.

MiniDV I feel is better then DVD. DVD is made to be easily to pop into a DVD player. I think MiniDV is better, more versitile, and cheaper.

I highly recommend B and H Photo out of New York. Great prices, excellent customer service, and very reliable. All my online purchases are made with them.

I like Sony video cameras, I think they are the best. I shoot with a Sony TRV22. I just checked on eBay and they run from $150 to $250. That is about 1/3 of the price I paid when I got my camera. After the TRV22 series Sony changed some of the internals and now the low light capability is a little worse. So, grabbing one of the TRV22's off eBay is a good price. I just might pick up a second one for myself.

Of, rereading the thread, do not reuse tapes. The cost is low enough that you really don't need to. I get the TDK 8-pak from CostCo for $20. Hard to beat that.

The camera has a small 1 hour battery. I recommend the 6 hour battery. I can shoot an entire day at DLR and not run out. I also recommend a UV filter. I also have an IR enhancing light for shooting in the dark, like Pirates or HM.

If I missed anything, ask away.

RU

[Imjustpeachy]

VERY informative! wow, so the B and H photo? I'll check out their website and meander around ebay.

[Mighty Unicorn]

Well, since I am mentioned in this thread, I guess I will jump in.

MiniDV I feel is better then DVD. DVD is made to be easily to pop into a DVD player. I think MiniDV is better, more versitile, and cheaper.

I highly recommend B and H Photo out of New York. Great prices, excellent customer service, and very reliable. All my online purchases are made with them.

I like Sony video cameras, I think they are the best. I shoot with a Sony TRV22. I just checked on eBay and they run from $150 to $250. That is about 1/3 of the price I paid when I got my camera. After the TRV22 series Sony changed some of the internals and now the low light capability is a little worse. So, grabbing one of the TRV22's off eBay is a good price. I just might pick up a second one for myself.

Of, rereading the thread, do not reuse tapes. The cost is low enough that you really don't need to. I get the TDK 8-pak from CostCo for $20. Hard to beat that.

The camera has a small 1 hour battery. I recommend the 6 hour battery. I can shoot an entire day at DLR and not run out. I also recommend a UV filter. I also have an IR enhancing light for shooting in the dark, like Pirates or HM.

If I missed anything, ask away.

RU

Didn't I just write this exact reply on the last page?


LOL ;)

Actually, what I was hoping was that RU could also chime in on the subject of editing software... I have found Premiere Elements to be perfect for the beginning DVD creator, but are there other software programs that work as well or better, in the same price range?

[Imjustpeachy]

Actually, what I was hoping was that RU could also chime in on the subject of editing software... I have found Premiere Elements to be perfect for the beginning DVD creator, but are there other software programs that work as well or better, in the same price range?

where can i purchase the software? :cool:

[GreenLantern13]

iMovie and iDVD come with every new mac and are very straightforward and easy for beginners ;P all i hear about PCs though is adobe premiere so I'd prolly go with that heh =D

[Imjustpeachy]

ok, now here is a new question. what camera has a better zoom?

[andrewilley]

I personally would probably be slightly more concerned about the overall quality of the optics rather than absolute numbers in terms of zoom ratios - but whatever camcorder you choose, turn off anything which purports to be a "digital zoom" of any kind (except maybe an extra x2 if your camera has a large CCD chip and can use it properly?). Far better to stick with pure optical zooms only, and ignore all the marketing drivel you see printed about 560X zooms and the like.

Andre

[Imjustpeachy]

hmm, it's so dificult with so many choices. however, I guess what I'm looking for is something no more than 400 bucks that is easy to use, great quality, has easy-to-use features that have good performance.

[Imjustpeachy]

it's been awhile and I know I was the last person to post, but now I kinda know what I want. I am curious as to where [store-wise] I could find a good minidv camcorder that's under 400 bucks that's as high in pixels i can get, easy to use, can take pictures but video quality is great, sound is good too, and zoom is good. I would also like to know what software to find that will work well with minidv's to create movies, edit them and upload them. pretty much anything userfriendly. Thanks again in advance, I'm so excited about my trip!

[Fantasmic!kid]

RU, is a Sony DCR-TRV18 any good?

[RU42]

I beleive it is one step down from the 22 but I cannot remember the exact differences in specs. I think the view finder was black/white but that may be wrong. You should be able to pull on the specs for both online somewhere.

On eBay you can find the trv22 for less then $200.

RU

[Imjustpeachy]

I've been checking them out and I'm still trying to decide. One of them had a great price at about 50 bucks with shipping and 7 hours to go. But it was partly working =\ I don't know how to fix cameras..so, that doesn't really help. Is e-bay the place for me to purchase a camera? E-bay is great, but I'm not that tech savvy. And what is better HDV or mini-dv?

[tony]

i am a big fan of 3 CCD camera but those are in the 3K and up brand new. ;)

[Imjustpeachy]

Does anyone know if Handy-cam's are good? What is the difference of a HC from a TRV?

[spock8113]

There are also Digital 8 cameras that use 8MM tape, a format that holds 1 hour at the highest quality speed.
They also play all your old 8MM tapes, be they regular 8MM or Hi-8.
I've been using a Sony TRV-840 Digital 8 and it's very durable. Sometimes higher end cameras will give you more metal than plastic but that depends.

Zoom is optical AND Digital. Usually anything past 10X or 12X is digital and quickly becomes "boxy"!

While on the subject of filters, not only will a UV filter protect the actual lense, consider a Neutral Density filter for bright daylight shooting. I think it's 37MM diameter.

B & H is excellent, been, shopped there and I'm happy.

DVD camcorders are still in their infancy and use small mini-discs, that I believe, only hold 20 minutes of footage.
When they introduce full-size DVD, then I'll consider.

Editing software: Adobe Premiere is one.
Avid is another used by professionals and a consumer version is probably available.
I use "ULead" Media Studio Pro 8. Like most editing software, give yourself a little time to master it.
Try magazines like "Videomaker" for sellers of that stuff.
Good luck!

[makeminemusic]

Wow, just read this thread. My daughter is directing a play for her senior project and wanted to film some parts of it, so we got a Sony DCR TRV280 from a local pawn shop. Digital Hi8. I appreciate all the comments on this thread since we are going to WDW next week and I get to use the camcorder there. I will be sure to get a filter!! Now I have a question. I bought a monopod to use in tight places, like parades, where I can stand in the back and raise my camcorder over the crowd. I am hoping I can stand with my back to a buildiing and shoot from there so I do not block others view. Any thoughts on good places to shoot WDW parades with this in mind?

[RU42]

I would suggest you still get curb side even with your monopod. If you mave back you will have lots of people walking in front of you with kids on their shoulders. I use a monopod/tripod even from the curb - works great.

RU

[GreenLantern13]

i don't use a tripod normally because I'm rather shy and end up feeling a little silly standing there with one out ;) But at wdw you'll definitely want curbside regardless. The only times I don't suggest curbside are if you have a raised viewing area, such as the small world gallery at Disneyland, which WDW doesn't really have. The three areas at WDW for parades I had suggested were the L shaped turn as the parade leaves(sdct)/approaches(spectro) liberty square, the beginning(sdct)/end(spectro) of the route next to splash mountain, and the end(sdct)[dunno if i'd do it for the beginning of spectro] on main street after it's gone around the circle so that you're by the emporium.

wherever you are, just make sure you can get a clear view of the parade approaching your spot.

[makeminemusic]

Thanks for the sage advice!! I am looking forward to trying out the "new" camcorder.

[makeminemusic]

Update: I was able to shoot a couple parades (motor and spectro)using my monopod, holding it up over the crowd and using the viewer to "see". Not real steady, but I got used to it and got some good footage without too many "wiggles". Works good when you do not have time to set up before a parade.

[Coolbeans326]

the panasonic 3CCD series is the best consumer quality camcorder you can get without going into the HD world, imo. I've used the PV-GS180 (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=96239&catGroupId=25003&modelNo=PV-GS180&surfModel=PV-GS180&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702) and for its price, it comes with really great quality video. The colors are very vibrant and crisp. I haven't used the PV-GS300 (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=96240&catGroupId=25003&modelNo=PV-GS300&surfModel=PV-GS300&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702) outside of Best Buy, but by reading many comparisons articles, I've decided that the picture quality between this camera, and its big sister the PV-GS500 (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=96241&catGroupId=25003&modelNo=PV-GS500&surfModel=PV-GS500&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702) are basically the same great crips quality. Although the options that the PV-GS500 offers is also very inticing, imo. I've used it to film the Electrical Parade at DCA and for the most part, everything was crisp and focused, mainly due to the manual focus ring located on the camera. The only downside to it is that is qute bulkier then the PV-GS150 and PV-GS300, so that may be something some of you want to consider. Dark ride footage on Indiana Jones and Pirates of the Carribean did not turn out well at all on the PV-GS500, but like most video cameras, even proffessional ones, they require a certain ammount of light, and there's nothing on these cameras that you can really do about that except maybe by a flash light since none of them contain a built in light.

Basically, if your looking for a camera you should really look at these cameras because I haven't found any other camera that quite matches the quality of video that these offer. :)

[tony]

sony came out with two that don't use tape but record to a HD. here is a link to start. ;)

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-Start?CategoryName=dcc_DICamcorders_Hard DiskHandycamCamcorders&Dept=cameras

i myself will be purchasing two of these soon...

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=HDRFX1&Dept=cameras&CategoryName=dcc_DICamcorders_HighDefini tionVideo

[GreenLantern13]

i've wanted one of the HDRs for a while but they weren't quite ready when i got mine and I don't want one of these earlier models too much(well, i like how it looks but not the early specs :P) 30gb is pretty good and it's the equivalent of over 3 hours of filming, but if you're doing more in a day you have to keep your laptop handy to unload some of it.