Ever felt there is more than meets the eye?

[jnt.varga@sbcglobal.net]

have you ever felt that something is just not right at dl but you just cant put your finger on it? im not saying there is, but it just feels like there are sooo many secrets that we dont know about..or rumors. it just might be me but i was wondering what yall thought....

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Well not really in my case. I usually keep myself up on all that's going on around there. For example, it's nice knowing that the new show building in the Sub Lagoon is going to be a Mr. Ray scene & the lagoon was rumored to be getting filled up sometime quite soon.

I'm not really concerned with the day-to-day maintenance & upkeep, I just know it's happening. It isn't very hard to keep up with the news, rumors, and stuff that hasn't broken out yet if you've got a nose for that sort of thing.

-- PMM :cool:

[jnt.varga@sbcglobal.net]

well thats good, but dont you think theres more? like darker stuff or secrets that disney doesnt want us to know? i know it might sound strange but i was just wondering

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Not really. It's hard to get things past major media in this age of bloggers & what not. The insider story is usually documented here and other message boards thanks to some really great folks who let us in on things of interest. I know we're not told the whole 100% complete picture, but we know enough that conspiracy theorists wouldn't have any legs to stand on. Right now, the climate is more of Disney trying to clean out the skeletons from their closet, not protect them.

-- PMM :cool:

[Sesshomaru-sama]

I do know the feeling you're talking about. I don't recall ever feeling this feeling in Disneyland but I do feel it outside the resort like my house and such. But, to me, it's a different story that involves something that I feel I'm not ready to say this about me in this website yet.

Sincerely, a brother of a half-demon,
Sesshomaru-sama

[jnt.varga@sbcglobal.net]

see thats how i feel like it something you really dont want to talk about. but something in your head that says something really isnt right. its not when im there just when im around the house

[am1974]

Kind of sounds like you have a paranoid personality too me. I just enjoy the time IM there and not worry about what secrets they have.

[Disneyland_Wolf]

I wish you can touch the audio animatronic figures. But they are too far away. But in some parts, like POTC you can touch one of the pirates at the end.

[The_real_simmer_3]

But in some parts, like POTC you can touch one of the pirates at the end.
I think you should mean that you could have touched one at the end due to the current refurbishment.

[Mortimer]

I don't know what you mean about "something in your head that says something really isnt right." But I believe that PeopleMoverMatt is totally correct that "It's hard to get things past major media in this age of bloggers & what not."

Without knowing what exactly you mean, it's real hard to address your point. But I'd like to respond to your question in general terms, if that's okay. Walt is one of those historical figures that attracts speculation both good and bad. He's one of those people that inspires conspiracy theorists to believe that he didn't really die in '66 and he's secretly living in an underground chamber somewhere in Disney World. Walt Disney is like the Kennedy assassintion or the Apollo Missions. There are always going to be theories. There's even a thread here at VF about it.

But why the theories? To me, there's two reasons. First of all, Disney's big. The Disney Company is huge and has been around a long time. There's a lot to Disney, including movies both animated and live action, music, theme parks. So to answer your question, there could be more to Disney than meets the eye. Disney has been involved in nearly everything from education to World War II. There truly is more important stuff to know about Disney than any one person could learn. And I guess it's possible for there to be a conspiracy within any organization. But I just don't think that means Disney has done anything to really be worried about, that's all.

But I think there's one other reason Disney attacts this sort of speculation. And it's because Walt was curious about everything. He made sure that Disney films are wholesome, upliftng family entertainment which naturally attracts accusations of hypocrisy. Walt's been accused of everything from controling the imaginations of children to hijacking the American culture. I don't have much interest in reading it, but Shickel's book The Disney Version apparently questions the integrity behind Disney films. It might not be all that negative, but like I said, I have other books I'm going to read before I check it out. Has anyone else read it?

And Walt was interested in science which makes some people wonder what he was really up to. He bought the swamp land in Florida under an alias in order to avoid price gauging and then planned to build an experimental city there when he passed away. A VF member has even written an excellent report that details many of the technological advancements that have been done by Disney.

I don't think someone can be as innovative as Walt was without attracting some skeptical attention. It's easy to see why people raise their eyebrows and say these things. He invented many of the special effects techniques that are used to create illusions in films. He built robots for his own amusement (and ours). He actually lived inside the Magic Kingdom. He would have gone ahead and built his own city if he'd lived long enough to do it. What else was he up to? He was frozen in an attempt to cheat death, wasn't he?

The cryogenics thing was never really true, of course. But Walt Disney really was one of the most unique people in history that I'm aware of. And he actually did have an interest in just about everything. I'm honestly surprised Walt attracts as little of this speculation as he does. But to answer jnt.varga@sbcglobal.net's question, I think Lone Knight put it best. He was talking about a wonderful book, Walt Disney : An American Original by Bob Thomas.

"The great thing about this book is that it reveals Walt as a human being. He laughes, he cries, he gets angry, he smokes, he fires people, he curses, he drinks, he creates, he has a family, he gets frustrated, he goes through bankruptcy.....people can relate to him on their own level, and it's because of this humanity that makes me respect Walt. He was human....but his mortality is what helped drive him to do these great things."

There's more to any person than meets the eye, including a very remarkable one like Walt Disney. But these theories sprout up because we often forget that he was just a man.

[Ezra]

It's a cynical world we live in. People are so jaded that they just can't believe a man like Walt Disney could be so wholesome, resourceful and optimistic. So they make up dirt about him.

[Mortimer]

We don't know what jnt.varga@sbcglobal.net's point is yet, Ezra. It might be something I wouldn't agree with. Then again, perhaps jnt.varga@sbcglobal.net could be talking about something that would be "just not right" to me too, like when they closed the People Mover or the Circlevision Theater, or when they had that Superstar Limo ride or when they replaced the Mainstreet Electrical Parade with the Light Magic Streetacular.

But I agree with you, Ezra. People are jaded and it affects their perception of Walt Disney. Some people simply feel Disney entertainment is boring, and that's fine. But other people try to see something sinister in Disney and that's where I disagree. I've always had a problem with the bride auction in the pirate ride. And the Pooped Pirate's dialogue used to be real creepy before they changed it to something about food. But that hasn't been the norm with Disney entertainment at all. Like I said above, "Walt's been accused of everything from controling the imaginations of children to hijacking the American culture." And I'm convinced that if his films didn't attempt to be wholesome, they wouldn't attract that type of criticism.

[Fantasmic_Freak]

Well not really in my case. It isn't very hard to keep up with the news, rumors, and stuff that hasn't broken out yet if you've got a nose for that sort of thing.
-- PMM :cool:

If only you knew.. If only you guys knew. But i cant tell you! :icon_lol: I love my job!

[jnt.varga@sbcglobal.net]

mortimer
thank you for your long post. but to answer your question, no it is not about Walt. i belive he was a well respected man ahead of his time. i love what he has done and started especilly for my children. i dont belive he is alive but i do belive he would be rolling over in his grave if he knew everything that has been going on.. i think in some light dl has lost the origanal magic i once knew in my childhood. but thats my opion, maybe because i was young and and didnt understand, who knows. when i say things are strange is there seems to be alot of secrets about rides and movies and stuff. like how the 20k ride in dw was shut down after they hijacked the ride.how there are secrets about the park people cant talk about. my friend works at dw as a caracter and he says there is alot of stuff he cant tell me. plus whats up with the vault? why wait so long to release the movies....plus is there really secret tunnels below?
there are alot of secrets that disney has and honestly im curious...like whats up with securty waiting to find out the whole situation before they call the cops? i dont know its just me.......thanks for all the responses. i am not in any way talking bad stuff about disney at all... i love it or i wouldnt be apart of this site. im just curious about the undercover stuff......

[Mortimer]

I wasn't sure what precisely you were saying, jnt.varga@sbcglobal.net, so I replied somewhat ambiguously. But I often noticed that Disney provokes a lot of theories so I was suggesting some reasons why that might be. But now that you've said what your question is, here's a response.

Tunnels? Yes, there are several but it's not all that exciting. In fact, you've probably been in a few of them yourself. After the park was built, it became necessary to create passageways through places that were not conventionally accessible, so the only option available was to go underground. I understand that there's one that goes beneath Main Street. And you've been in tunnels that go beneath the train. Indy, Pirates and Haunted Mansion all have show buildings outside the berm that ended up requiring underground tunnels.

And this is an example of something that makes sense when you think about it, but initially seems like some sort of secret. Underground tunnels sound somehow covert, but really it was just a practical solution to a problem. And regarding secrets, it's been said that secrets are harder to keep today than they were before. But this touches on what I said in my previous post. People seem to expect Disney to have all sorts of secrets, and they do probably have some. And like I said, Disney being a big company, there's more to know than any one person could discover. But even if we could learn all of Disney's secrets, it probably would be nothing that would surprise us all that much. Disney understandably would not want the public to know every project they had in development until they had a chance to promote them properly. So they keep them secret until they are ready.

I understand that you aren't saying anything bad about Disney. And I agree that Walt was an innovative, important person. And I love the classic Disney rides and movies as well. But I don't know if Disney has really lost its magic. It simply has different magic. Walt's magic was created by different artists than the ones we enjoy today. He had Ward Kimball, we have Glen Keane. He had Marc Davis, we have Brad Bird. He had the Shermans, we have Alan Menken. He had Yale Gracey, we have Tony Baxter. He had Ub Iwerks, we have John Lasseter. If I could, would I go back in time to talk to one of the original artists rather than talk to one of today's artists? Would I rather meet Mary Blaire than Andreas Dejas? Well, yeah. But Andreas Dejas is an talented, important artist. I'd love to meet him as well. It simply isn't a fair comparison.

Animation was created by the people who worked with Walt. Even the artists at Pixar draw their inspiration from the artists who made Pinocchio. But that shouldn't spoil a wonderful movie like Toy Story or The Lion King. I would love it if Disneyland would make another truly grand ride like Pirates again. And I've been more than a little outspoken about my disappointment in DCA. But Soarin' is a spectacular ride. And Aladdin in the Hyperion Theater is an amazing show. And I'm really looking forward to the Nemo ride they're building in the Submarine Lagoon. (Judging by your avatar, I'm assuming you're looking forward to it as well.) I do believe Walt would have mixed feelings about the work being done today, but he'd be realistic about it as well. Today's magic is being made by different artists who have a right to have their own voice.

[RollingBoulder]

plus whats up with the vault? why wait so long to release the movies..
That's been a frustrating experience for me recently. I've been wanting to buy some of the newer (post-Little Mermaid) Disney movies on DVD, but I can't buy them from a normal store. I'm forced to buy from ebay or the Amazon marketplace, just because they have since gone back into the "Disney Vault" :icon_roll. And movies like TLM and BatB are so expensive on there, it's not even worth it. I guess I don't understand why they can't make these movies accessible all the time, instead of having to wait until they re-release them.

[AlexLoup]

That's been a frustrating experience for me recently. I've been wanting to buy some of the newer (post-Little Mermaid) Disney movies on DVD, but I can't buy them from a normal store. I'm forced to buy from ebay or the Amazon marketplace, just because they have since gone back into the "Disney Vault" :icon_roll. And movies like TLM and BatB are so expensive on there, it's not even worth it. I guess I don't understand why they can't make these movies accessible all the time, instead of having to wait until they re-release them.

But what they do is genius, release the movies every seven years, so a new group of parents have to buy them.

[jnt.varga@sbcglobal.net]

it is genius...but is it nessary? ne ideas on the whole police thing i was talking about?

[PeoplemoverMatt]

^ It is necessary lest its availability become over-saturated. Doing this, they can maintain each movie's DVD's retail price as high as it is, and never be subject to the usual decline in price DVDs experience over time.

-- PMM :cool:

[RollingBoulder]

It's still incredibly annoying.

[jnt.varga@sbcglobal.net]

i agree
does anyone have any good speculation or conspircy theries....it would be kind of intresting......

[daisy66]

I know what your talking about,I feel the same way,but not like bad,I feel like they have a big surprise or something up their sleeves.I feel normal at the park,but when I go home and think about Disney,I feel like I missed something,or they have a suprise and it is taking them forever to reveal it.I can't wait for when they do.

[jnt.varga@sbcglobal.net]

thats how i think alot of us think....like theres a bigger plan...nothing bad, just weird....

[Ezra]

As far as the video releases go, it's just a savy marketing scheme. Disney was really the first to do this. This goes all the way back to the days of the BetaMax. They'd release a feature and advertise that it was only available for a limited time, to provoke a feeding frenzy for the product. The ploy is only partly effective, because instead of sending unpurchased copies back at the end of the release period as they're supposed to, the merchants would purchase them themselves in order to keep them in stock. The release window would close, and two or three years later the stores still had them!

Even though the whole feeding frenzy thing doesn't really work, it's still to Disney's advantage to do it that way The advantage for them is streamlined manufacturing. They're not making product whenever stock runs low, only during the release period. They're not overloaded trying to press everything at the same time. It's actually a smart way to handle things.

[jnt.varga@sbcglobal.net]

ezra, any conspericy theries you particullary like?

[Ezra]

No, most of the ones you hear are waaay off the deep end. Walt Disney got them into masonry and now they're all devil worshipers, stuff like that. :frown:

Then there's the generalized Disney is brainwashing our kids with their values! Gosh! When I look at what those values actually are I say to myself Cool! That would save me the trouble of doing it myself! :biggrin:

And then there's the stuff about secretly inserting naughty bits into the films, which turns out to be partly true!

[jnt.varga@sbcglobal.net]

i seem to agree with you.....and the stuff in the older movies is kinda funny...lol. i dont think any thing is evil about disney, do ithink that they have a huge emprire? yes i do and i think they do a good job on protecting it. have you ever wondered why there arent any places like it? you can count universal.....

[Ezra]

Lots of places try to be like it, but aren't as well planned or themed. Disney's emphasis on attractions that everyone can enjoy together really makes it work. Disney really has a winning formula in that regard. If they can just continue to stick closely to it they'll continue to outshine the others.

I hear Port Aventura in Spain is a pretty solid rival. I don't know though, I've never been. I only heard. http://www.visionsfantastic.com/forum/images/icons/icon5.gif

[jnt.varga@sbcglobal.net]

do you know the name of it?

[Ezra]

Oh sorry, Port Aventura is the name. It's on the Gold Coast not far from Barcelona. Universal purchased it, but didn't create it.

Edit: I just googled it. A British group created it. Universal purchased it, built a rollercoaster, then sold it to local investors. It's not Universal anymore.

[jnt.varga@sbcglobal.net]

ty.... ne cool stuff you find interesting?

[Ezra]

I do get a little irritated by Disney cramming family values where they don't really belong. For example:

The Shaggy Dog. Tommy Kirk plays a kid who turns into a dog. Well what child doesn't play Let's Pretend and fantasize about being an animal?

The remake of The Shaggy Dog: Tim Allen, playing a neglectful workaholic dad, turns into a dog and learns a valuable lesson about taking the time to appreciate his family. :icon_roll

Is that really necessary? Why not just turn into a dog? When Dean Jones turned into a dog, he didn't learn valuable lessons about the meaning of family did he? No! He just hammed it up with Tim Conway and Joanne Warley. Someone at Disney is working way to hard to shove these moral messages into these pictures where they don't belong. :rolleyes:

[PeoplemoverMatt]

^ Well, that sort of thing is better for kids to watch with their parents than something like "Inside Man" or "The Benchwarmers". At least they're trying to remember what values are, unlike most of Hollywood.

-- PMM :cool:

[Ezra]

No arguement there.

[Imjustpeachy]

why wait so long to release the movies....

I'm thinking of The Little Mermaid and how it hasn't been released yet. There have been some controversies in some parts of that film that perhaps that's one of the reasons they're taking awhile? Oh well..i just thought of this while driving home tonight. Weird epiphany of some sort. Anyways, I love the movie! I do see what you mean about..not really knowing whats going on. I feel that if i get too involved it won't be fun anymore. What you don't know can't hurt you i suppose.

[jnt.varga@sbcglobal.net]

but dont you kind of wonder........

[dctrdez]

The reason one feels so different after leaving Disneyland, or any Disney experience, is because Disney has a technique that immerses you into the environment. This is why they go into such painstaking detail about everything.

Take Adventureland, for instance. Now just take the Jungle Cruise. Now just takke the queue. Even in the Jungle Cruise queue, we are convinced that we are in a jungle outpost about to board riverboats to go into the uncharted jungle. The pictures that hang on the walls, the drawings, the little areas covered by the nets (the cargo storage area, the hospital area, everything IN these areas) all play together to form this ultimate immersive experience. The only things that remind us of the outside world are the thing we bring in ourselves.

Immersive experiences are a Disney trademark. It includes everything from props, architecture, flora, fauna, lights, sounds, and even the attitudes from the "cast members" (a term that further separates us from the real world, by not using "employees"). Disneyland works very hard, and they've become very, very good at making a place that evokes universal good feelings to all guests (there's the immersiveness again...we're not termed customers) so that when they leave all the immersiveness, the drearyness of the real world comes as a mild shock.

This works as a good business plan, actually, in that people want to return to Disneyland to be all touchy-feely again, and the willingly spend more money to return, where they spend even MORE money on merchandise, food, etc. This is an original Walt Disney idea, and one of the ideas that made him a genius for the "show" (MORE immersion...!).

So, it's not a conspiracy that makes Disneyland the way it is. Yes, there are things they don't tell us, but that's because it ruins the "show" of Disneyland. Our perception of Disneyland as consumers is well-crafted (after 50 years of experience) so that it becomes a place where all can be happy-feely and we experience the "magic". That "magic" is a combination of every technique Disney has created to build its fanbase (us and everyone else who goes back to Disney and the theme parks for entertainment), including environment immersion, etc.

There is a HUGE market for family entertainment, and Disney wants to stay the leader of the market. That's why it invests so heavily into its theme park entertainment. We go to these places, and reinforce the Disney brand of quality entertainment into our minds. And return again, again, and again, because we simply like it there. Like bees love nectar. The Disney Company, like every other company out there doesn't reveal EVERYTHING about itself because it could concievably give away what are known as trade secrets. Sure we already know a lot, but there is a lot more we DON'T. And this is for the company's own good. If they told everyone how they did everything, then competition will inevitably imitate and offer more competition. Simple, simple business.

So, that should cover in very basic terms what the Disney company is all about, and why conspiracy theories are always pretty much bogus. This is why education is important. There are so many conspiracy theories about corporations that I hear that are so STUPID, because better education reveals how things like business really work. Businesses can care less about ruling the world...they're there to make a buck, and survive to keep making those bucks.

~Doc~ (That's not saying all companies are greedy money grubbers...I also think the Disney Company--at least, the family entertainment divisions--does a great service to those who really want an alternative to, well, everything not Disney, lol)

[Disneyland_Wolf]

Hey! Being a animal rocks! Expect for most dogs. I would rather be a werefox or a werewolf. Being human is sometimes boring!!

If Disney is planning to rerelese the animated classics into special edition DVDs and why for a Limited Time?! Before it goes into the 'Disney Vault' and locked forever! I don't see the Lion King Special Edtion DVD anymore. I wanted buy it, because I don't have it. Right now, a few people in my werewolf forum saying that Disney is being a wee-bit 'evil' right now. They say, Disney ruined the Dark Fairytales in Snow White, the Little Mermaid, etc. into happy and cheerful.

In the original story, Ariel dies in the end. Ursula didn't die. In Snow White, the seven little dwarves are not cheerful and happy. They are evil, also it is very dark. I like those.

Sorry for saying that, because the World is not always happy, but! Making those Dark Fairytales into wonderful classics by Disney is good enough for me.

[jnt.varga@sbcglobal.net]

has anybidy got any new secrets they want to share or interesting facts? how about Shaq offering 2.5 million dollars to stay in the disneyland castle and disney said no, how cool is that, that just makes me feel good inside..lol

[el capitan]

i am jnt.varga, sorry guys just wanted to throw that out there

[lpetiti]

Hey! Being a animal rocks! Expect for most dogs. I would rather be a werefox or a werewolf. Being human is sometimes boring!!

If Disney is planning to rerelese the animated classics into special edition DVDs and why for a Limited Time?! Before it goes into the 'Disney Vault' and locked forever! I don't see the Lion King Special Edtion DVD anymore. I wanted buy it, because I don't have it. Right now, a few people in my werewolf forum saying that Disney is being a wee-bit 'evil' right now. They say, Disney ruined the Dark Fairytales in Snow White, the Little Mermaid, etc. into happy and cheerful.

In the original story, Ariel dies in the end. Ursula didn't die. In Snow White, the seven little dwarves are not cheerful and happy. They are evil, also it is very dark. I like those.

Sorry for saying that, because the World is not always happy, but! Making those Dark Fairytales into wonderful classics by Disney is good enough for me.

Well, if you think about it, most of these movies have families going to them and these kinds of movies have to have the same thing.They all must have an expulsion of the villian, the hero/heroine stay alive and find true love and have a happy ending.(I know there are so exceptions to this but still)

[Disneynovice]

O.K. I have been keeping an eye on this thread for a bit and now I would like to toss in my 2 cents worth, so here goes.........
First of all I would certainly agree that Disney has made a huge effort of maintaining an air of mystery about many things. They have embarked on a course from the very beginning to foster and maintain a "mystique" if you will.
This type of thinking dates clear back to Walt's time and has been perpetuated for a very good, and tangible reason. It works. If you look at the "why" of the way that works, it is really quite simple. As I am a sales and marketing professional, it makes perfect sense to me from several standpoints, one of which being that if you build a bit of mystery and expectation, and pay attention to the publics thoughts and reactions, you can respond in a positive ( and VERY profitable, I might add) way, that allows them to constantly let what they are working on, evolve in a positive direction. One of the other reasons that is plain to me is that this is "who" and "what" the Disney experience is, has, and hopefully always will be, as any other way of doing things, is plainly, "not the Disney way of doing things". Abandoning this philosophy would result in a total shift of the dynamic, that the company has used, as a greater part of their identity since day one. Walt put it best when he started the practice of "plussing". I.E. give them something that they want, make it over the top, and then pile on a bunch more than they expect, in essence, blow them away, and then do it some more. This leaves your audience in a pleasant state of shock, and just when they start to recover from that, they start to realize that this is something that they have never experienced before, and dadgummit!!! they want some more of that stuff!!!! Again, absolutely brilliant. As for maintaining the "immersion" and "turning off" of the outside world, as some posters here have pointed out already, again, that has always been the Disney way of doing things. It is impossible to create any illusion, unless you find a way to suspend the natural disbelief that humankind is disposed to in the first place. Walt figured this out very early in his career, long before Disneyland was ever even a twinkle in his eye, and continued to use that throughout his career. Some have said that Walt "saw everything" long before it was ever even started. It was said of WDW at the opening that someone wished Walt was there to see it to its fruition, and the reply was thus; he already has seen it, that is why it is here in the first place. So to put an answer to the question of "is there something more than meets the eye?" Darn right there is, and I for one am very grateful that that is a truth in the World of Disney. I truly hope it stays that way for generation after generation.
Otherwise it would just be another amusement park, and that would be a tragedy of epic proportions.:cool:

[el capitan]

very very interesting, i love hearing peoples points of views, that was great, i understand the illuminessince of mystery that shouds wdw and dl, which is great, and i love it, thats why i started this i wanted to know how other people felt and their knowlage, but who really knows all the secrets, will we ever know, it is a great feeling though.

[Stephen]

Of corse I have-Once when I was on IASW I looked down, below the canal and I think what I saw was the "secret" underground world of Disneyland-It looked like a white room with tiles and like, cabinets of some sort. It was just like a crack with light shining through.