Traditional animation returns

[Ezra]

Discuss the future of traditional animation at Disney, and how the Disney-Pixar merger affects it.

This Hollywood Reporter article discusses the new contracts with animation directors John Musker and Ron Clements, who's work includes The Aladdin and Little Mermaid: 'Mermaid' Men Back in Dis Net (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=10020 76606)

[Monorail91]

Hooray!

[debijeanm]

Such great news! I'm excited to see what new art forms emerge as CGI meets traditional animation.

[lpetiti]

Wait, so this means that Disney will go back to its true animation?

[Ezra]

Seems that way. They're starting with some sequences for film called Enchanted (http://www.jimhillmedia.com/article.php?id=1860) about a Disney Princess who is magically exiled from the animated kingdom and finds herself in a live action New York City. They want the animated portion of the film to look as much like a classic Disney film as possible, so they've hired back some animators to work on it.

[TsWade2]

Oh joy!

[Monorail91]

Whoa! That sounds really cool!

[Chatterbug]

Sounds like good news traditionally animated movies are on my list of wishfull comebacks. I do also like the CG animation however there are not many beautiful artistic renderigs of people for a full version Movie that I can think of. I do enjoy charaters that Pixar has come up with but the human figure is of course the one thing most of us will be critical of. In addition there are some different looks that come about through a more traditional aproach that CG hasn't been able to duplicate yet.

[Ezra]

I do enjoy charaters that Pixar has come up with but the human figure is of course the one thing most of us will be critical of. In addition there are some different looks that come about through a more traditional aproach that CG hasn't been able to duplicate yet. That's the same criticism Traditional animation used to get. Critics of Show White and Pinocchio said that the human characters were terrible, and that Walt should stick to one-reel cartoons with featuring cute animals.

Al Hirschfeld, comparing his art of caricature to Snow White, said:
Brace yourself, this gets ugly.
...the characters Snow White, Prince Charming, and the Queen are badly drawn attempts at realism: They imitate pantographically the actions of their counterparts in factual photography. ...Disney's treatment of these characters belongs in the oopsy-woopsy school of art practiced mostly by etchers who portray dogs with cute sayings. Snow White, with her full complement of fingers and fingernails, eyelashes, one-dimensional head, bare arms without solidity and uninventive neck is an anatomic automation. These awkward symbols do not articulate, and the lovely voice with which she is endowed only heightens the effect of a ventriloquist's dummy. The staccato movements of Snow White and her cardboard lover, both wired for sound, are distinctly bad influences in this new art form. To imitate an animated photograph except as satire is in poor taste. So, two things will happen... one is that we'll get used to the new look of CG. The other is that CG will improve, as traditional animation did. The little girl in Glen Keene's tests for Rapunzel really looked terrific. Much better than the characters in Shreck or The Incredibles.

Actually I kinda liked the look of the caracters in the incredibles. The look reminded me of old stop-motion humans, like those in Santa Clause is Comin' to Town or Mad Monster Party. I thought they were kinda fun, in a fabulist Ray Harryhausen sort of way.

[Chatterbug]

I have human characters that I love in the Pixar films. I haven't seen a beautiful or hansom figure in a full length movie yet that I would think a little girl would dream of as more traditional artists have drawn for movies. If you look at my page one of my most favorite characters is a Pixar character "Geri from one of Pixars Academy Award Winning short films. My point is that in any form of art people tend to be more critical of the human figure than any other subject. I think in time there will be more improvements to this form of art. I would not want to see it go away just as any other form of art. In time I believe most every form of art that is already drawn can be closely duplicated by CG. It's almost there already and some artist do already have beautiful renderings of the human figures I just haven't seen a full length movie with one yet. I would agree the Incredibles are my favorite characters when it comes to the look they were given out of full Lenght movies as far as humans go.


As for critic's of the past. I may look at the animations of Disney differently than they did since I have grown with these characters just as many of them were probably looking at the characters in comparison to films, photos or artist renderings were not used in animation, I don't know?? My idea of what looks acceptable might be different because of what I have become used to.
The Movies that Pixar has put out there so far seem perfect for most of their characters. Sometimes I look at the humans as looking a bit plastic. I don't know so far that is my perception.

I hope to see art in several different looks that traditional artists have used in the past such as Beautiful water color backgrounds (Example in Bambi) or The Rich Tapestry style in Sleeping Beauty. I also hope to see a mix of both traditional and CG mediums in future films such as used in Tarzan and Beauty and the Beast. I want it all! lol

CB:smile:

[Ezra]

Yeah, plastic... :nods_head:

[emma15677]

Is this definite news though?

[Ezra]

Well, The Hollywood Reporter is a pretty reliable source. Also, Enchanted (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0461770) and The Frog Princess (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0780521) mentioned in that story are listed on IMDB for 2007 & 2008. Enchanted lists Amy Adams, James Marsden and Susan Sarandon as attatched to the production.

[debijeanm]

I am always amazed by the detail in the CG stuff, but it lacks depth. Traditional animation has that depth. A melding of the two could be pretty spectacular.

CG "people" are entertaining and getting better all the time, but I'm still not getting the subtle facial communication I remember from animation. I liked Ezra's comparison to the stop-action, claymation characters. That's how they strike me, too. But look how far they've come already; ya gotta know it's just going to get better and better. There's nothing like a group of creative people sitting around saying, "What if we tried this?" whether it's on computers, in a rehearsal hall or in a recording studio. I suspect it's been the same forever.

[TLKAMARANO]

I've always been a fan of the traditional animation.

[The_real_simmer_3]

I am always amazed by the detail in the CG stuff, but it lacks depth. Traditional animation has that depth.
And I always have called CG A bunch of squares and circles that do nothing.

[penning126]

I think that Disney needs to go back not only to 2D animation, but a storyline that's more like what it used to be. The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, The Lion King; these were all hugely successful 2D films. But Home on the Range was a 2D film too and in my opinion it was a lousy movie. The difference is that lately, Disney has gone away from the classic fairy tale genre. Walt got it right. He knew that every culture and every generation has a fairy tale. Setting it to music make it even better.
There's more to a good animated movie than it's animation. It's all about the storyline. Timeless principles needs to replace popular political correctness. That being said, I totally hope Disney goes back to what worked for them in the first place.

[SilentMickey]

I like all forms of animation but it seems today that nobody puts any effort in to it. Remember T.V. shows like Batman the aminated series or Darkwing Duck or any of the cartoons of the early to mid 90's. These toons had great animation Value but now when I turn on Kids WB or any of the Sat. morning cartoons they are either OK CGI toons or drawn cartoons with no moral values all geared toward selling stuff. They tend to remind me the old school
Hanna-Barbera toons where Scooby and shaggy are running and the bacground was a looped image. the only CGI cartoons that I'll watch are the PIXAR flicks which are really well written and well animated. IMHO It all really boils down to the Script With out one all the CGI in the world ain't gonna help. Look at the Matrix films, I wanted to get into them, but for the life of me I couldn't get into the story so I just sat back and watched all the pretty CGI and felt dissapointed. Hopefully Disney Has more class than that and they stick to doing what they do best... storytelling.
Okay, I'm off my soap box.

[Kileli]

I am very happy about this. i remember a few years ago, disney saying that brother bear would be the last non-computer animated movie they would make, and i was sad to hear that. Enchanted sounds like a cool movie idea. That is one reason i like disney. they are the last movie company to still make movies about original ideas, not remakes

[Kore]

I'm pretty excited for the comeback of traditional hand-drawn animation. Can't wait to see what Disney-Pixar will come up with.

Regarding the topic of human-like CG figures...well, are any of you familiar with the Final Fantasy franchise? Especially the newly released CG-animated film, Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children. Some photos:

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5476/official682zr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/1436/official522xk.th.jpg (http://img290.imageshack.us/my.php?image=official522xk.jpg)

http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/6071/official697sb.th.jpg (http://img290.imageshack.us/my.php?image=official697sb.jpg)

(Click on thumbnails for larger and more detailed image)

Personally, I think the graphics for FFVII: AC are incredible. Quite realistic looking and very detailed, though perhaps a bit "anime"-ish. There aren't any misporportioned body parts or anything. The hardest thing, I believe, about 3-D animation is trying to make the characters look expressive.

But I think Pixar's done relatively well when trying to make CG humans. The humans in Toy Story (Andy, his mother, the chicken guy...) weren't bad.

I'm not sure if they could achieve the realism like in FFVII: AC, but they've always had a cartoon-y style for their CG humans, which I enjoy.

[Chatterbug]

^Those are beautiful CG renderings I would like to see them in a full length movie and how they move in comparison to hand drawn animation. Again I like both. I just think the CG still can be improved in some areas. Just look at all the improvements made to hand drawn animation over the past 50+ years.

[Disneyland_Wolf]

I like Traditional Animation better than CG animation. But, Traditional can be hard to do, since you used so many pieces of paper and redrawing the figures in motion. But it is fun most of the time.

I like CG too, but Pixar makes the best orignal storylines and styles.

[Piglet]

I think that Disney needs to go back not only to 2D animation, but a storyline that's more like what it used to be. The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, The Lion King; these were all hugely successful 2D films. But Home on the Range was a 2D film too and in my opinion it was a lousy movie. The difference is that lately, Disney has gone away from the classic fairy tale genre. Walt got it right. He knew that every culture and every generation has a fairy tale. Setting it to music make it even better.
There's more to a good animated movie than it's animation. It's all about the storyline. Timeless principles needs to replace popular political correctness. That being said, I totally hope Disney goes back to what worked for them in the first place.
You are so dead-on here! I completely agree with you. It's been so long since I got excited about a newly released Disney animated film. Seriously, I think the last time was Mulan.

[Ezra]

The publicity stills for Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, which came out in 2001, looked really good. But the actual movie, meh, not so much. Publicity stills and trailers always show the best work.

Although they really seemed to be on to something. I thought that in the last 15 minutes of that film the humans looked really good. I almost wished they'd gone back and re-done the rest of the movie to match it. (Also if they could write a script that made sense, that'd be good.) I wouldn't be at all surprised if this one looks great all the way through.

[Kore]

The publicity stills for Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, which came out in 2001, looked really good. But the actual movie, meh, not so much. Publicity stills and trailers always show the best work.

Although they really seemed to be on to something. I thought that in the last 15 minutes of that film the humans looked really good. I almost wished they'd gone back and re-done the rest of the movie to match it. (Also if they could write a script that made sense, that'd be good.) I wouldn't be at all surprised if this one looks great all the way through.

Hahha, I remember when there was a lot of hype from the FF fans for The Spirits Within. You're right, the graphics seemed very impressive, but as for the storyline and characters...ehh, not so much. Part of that was because the facial expressions (in my opinion anyway) weren't done all that well :icon_roll and the story was so far-off from the original material that it most definitely bugged the heck out of Final Fantasy fans like me (Advent Children is much better emotion-wise and revolves around the theme of redemption).

That's why Pixar's been so successful in their films--they know how to write a good storyline and present characters that show depth and significance. Has there ever been an unsuccessful Pixar film? No (right?). The comedy and jokes they come up with are downright clever, IMO.

If a company should bring back the traditional animation, I'm glad it's Pixar (or Disney-Pixar, whatever ;) )

[TherealRNO]

"they are the last movie company to still make movies about original ideas, not remakes"

*coughs loudly* The cruddy Underdog film that has pratically nothing to do with the original series, 'cept in name and costume only?