Should Space Mountain Get A Space Lift?

[Narnia Fan]

Since Space Mountain at Disneyland and Disneyland Paris got a space lift, do you guys think Space Mountain in the Magic Kingdom should get a space lift also? What do you think? If you would like it to get a new change, what do you want to see? ;)

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Magic Kingdom's Space Mtn's coaster layout is certainly lacking compared to its counterparts. It's old, rough and less thrilling than the other versions. I say bulldoze the current track, and build a new coaster with one track that blows the other 2 away. There's certainly enough space in there to do it.

-- PMM :cool:

[CostaFreak]

Magic Kingdom's Space Mtn's coaster layout is certainly lacking compared to its counterparts. It's old, rough and less thrilling than the other versions. I say bulldoze the current track, and build a new coaster with one track that blows the other 2 away. There's certainly enough space in there to do it.

-- PMM :cool:

OR...they can still make another two tracked layout that is almost exactly the same, but still feels more thrilling than the current ride.

Remember, it's not always the track that influences the ride experience, which was proven in the DLR SM refurb. Yes, the track can be changed to be smoother, but the layout could stay. All it needs to be a better ride experience anyways is more darkness, better effects, and a soundtrack.

BTW PMM, since you've been to TDL recently, compare thier SM last year to this year. They didn't change anything to the track, but it's alot better, right? That proves that big screams don't always come in big packages.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

OR...they can still make another two tracked layout that is almost exactly the same, but still feels more thrilling than the current ride.

It's hard to be more thrilling with the same layout when thrills come from the ride layout itself. The track layout by definition needs to change for a coaster to become 'more thrilling'. In this Space Mtn's case, since the current layout is identical to Disneyland's Matterhorn, there is a lot of room in there to add more thrilling elements such as inversions, airtime hills, helixs, etc. That's why I wanted to only go with one track because it would allow for the best use of space. Having two tracks in there wastes space on a 2nd track that could have been used for other elements.


Remember, it's not always the track that influences the ride experience, which was proven in the DLR SM refurb. Yes, the track can be changed to be smoother, but the layout could stay. All it needs to be a better ride experience anyways is more darkness, better effects, and a soundtrack.


If MK's Space Mtn's track layout was the same as DLR's, that might be true, but MK's current layout is less thrilling than DLR's. So, even if MK's received the same upgrades that DLR received, it'd still be lacking in the track layout area by comparison. DLR's layout was about as good as it could get in its given space. MK's has a bunch of extra space if they don't insist on 2 tracks, so why not use it to create a more thrilling ride experience at the same time?

BTW PMM, since you've been to TDL recently, compare thier SM last year to this year. They didn't change anything to the track, but it's alot better, right? That proves that big screams don't always come in big packages.

No I wouldn't call it 'a lot better'. The only things that were changed were pre-show elements. New entrance marquee, queue video, safety video, spaceship in the loading area, lift hill effects and removal of large red 'thing'.

The lift hill effects were rather underwhelming. Nice use of mirrors in the first lift hill, but after that its basically nothing but darkness until you go into the main building with all the stars, where you see the red thing's gone but nothing (not even an unlit asteroid) put in its place. No on-ride music either. So no I don't consider it 'a lot better', I don't even consider it better really. The new ship is cool, and you'll be seeing pictures of it soon, but that's about it really.

-- PMM :cool:

[Narnia Fan]

What do you mean by the new ship is cool? I didn't know it got a new ship. Did I missed something? Also, if you go to Utube, you will know that most of the videos of Space Mt. from the Magic Kingdom are the ones with the lights on. I also had problems looking for a good video of it.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Tokyo Disneyland's Space Mountain just received a new ship in its loading area.

-- PMM :cool:

[Narnia Fan]

Oh! My bad! I thought the one in Florida got it.

[Disney_Guy]

Here's the "newer" version of Space Mountain at Tokyo Disneyland:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMwSCS-pihs

It features a, uh.... Interesting video at the beginning that you see while in line... Nothing special there, right?
But what's really cool about their queue is when you reach the boarding station. Same exact layout as DLR's Space Mountain, but it's tone and mood is a lot more interesting and cooler than ours (IMHO). Simply more going on in that room with effects. Wouldn't it be cool if ours were like that?
Well, that's all that's really better, I guess.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

I filmed the video in the queue myself while I was there as I thought it was really cool. Finally we have an explanation as to what a ship is doing in there in the first place!

And it's not quite the same layout as ours. They don't have that annoying split of the line down the very last hill to loading like ours does. Makes the line feel a bit quicker since that inevitable stop doesn't happen.

Pictures coming soon!

-- PMM :cool:

[Big Disney Fan]

Since Space Mountain at Disneyland and Disneyland Paris got a space lift, do you guys think Space Mountain in the Magic Kingdom should get a space lift also? What do you think? If you would like it to get a new change, what do you want to see? ;)

Tokyo's Space Mountain got a space lift, too.

As for what the new SM should resemble, here's what I would do if I were given the opportunity (though it technically should go into the "Be an Imagineer" section):

The two tracks will be completely scrapped and replaced by one long single track. The new Space Mountain will be a roller coaster trip through space the likes of which the public has never seen before. Designed in collaboration with WDI and Intamin, it will be a launched Twister-style coaster with dramatic special effects and design structures (including a vertical loop and the world's largest barrel loop) to simulate a wormhole journey through the boundless realm of space. A new entrance pre-show allows guests the sensation of being "beamed" to an orbital space station (Space Station 75). A meteor shower ensues that then disallows the use of the teleporter to get back to Earth, thus the prototypical wormhole train would need to be used. The result is an incredible hyperspeed rush through the cosmos.

That's what I would do if I could do it.

[Narnia Fan]

Oh yes! I saw the video! The new queue line looks really awesome! More futuristic like! Let me see if I can explain this... I like the weird, bluish effect that is inside the front windows of the spacecraft! Totally futuristic! And I love the containers that charge up the spacecraft! I like the color! Let me see if I can explain this one also.... If you see the new video, you should see in the queue line, above on the sides, 2 green, straight lines that form and then disappear. Then, when the spacecraft makes that weird sound effect, the green lines come again, stay still for a few seconds, then they turn into small, green little ovals. Love how that looks! Sorry that is hard to explain! And Peoplemovermatt, you filmed the video? How did you get the stars?! The video is really awesome I gotta say!

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Only problem is those light effects only happen every so often. Maybe once the entire time you're in the loading area, if that. I wish those lights were always going constantly as the queue video would have you believe. :(

-- PMM :cool:

[CostaFreak]

Tokyo's Space Mountain got a space lift, too.

As for what the new SM should resemble, here's what I would do if I were given the opportunity (though it technically should go into the "Be an Imagineer" section):



That's what I would do if I could do it.

NO!

Please, if it's gonna be a refurb, they could put new track for a 2 track layout, but that idea there means sending the soul of the old SM 75 away into the coaster underworld, no offence.

In the future, If I have kids, I wan't to see them at 6 years old enjoying their ride on a refurbished SM, just like I did at 6. But if that happens, I'm gonna have to wait until the kid's 9 to step on that thing!

How about if it stays a family coaster like it should be, but inhance the thrill by changing the scenery and effects with newer, state of the art technology, just like they did with DL's SM.


Ok, I guess that wasn't enough. Time to use NoLimits.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

So you wouldn't consider any coaster with any inversions whatsoever a 'family coaster'? Hmm.

-- PMM :cool:

[Disney_Guy]

I would be all for scraping both tracks and just make one bigger track in the dome, and give the Imagineers more freedom and space to do what they want than cramping it all together, if a major refurb ever does happen.
Combine both Tokyo's Space Mountain' queue design and DLR's Space Mountain's version of the ride (But different track layout, yay?) with the technology we have, and built in sound system so they can have their very own soundtrack, rather than listening to the clinks and clunks and rollercoaster clacks on steel, you get the best Space Mountain to date, IMHO.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

^ Then you basically clone Tokyo's Space Mtn. since its track layout is exactly the same as Disneyland's minus the music.

-- PMM :cool:

[Disney_Guy]

I guess I didn't really clearly state it out or something... I said different track layout. With the same effects in the ride incorporated from DLR over.. So... A layout that is different than any of the Space tracks today. Something like you suggested, maybe inversions? And if there's a completely different track layout, the current soundtrack for DLR wouldn't fit, maybe a new soundtrack? I am only thinking of something different for WDW Space Mountain, it's not like what I say is gonna happen..

[MajesticMatterhorn]

possibly for the 40th??????

[CostaFreak]

So you wouldn't consider any coaster with any inversions whatsoever a 'family coaster'? Hmm.

-- PMM :cool:

If it has a loop, that's fine, but corkscrews then start to pile on the thrill-o-meter.

But no inversions on this, and please keep the two track layout going, I beg you Disney. If not, you will be killing of the ride and it would be like replacing it with something else altogether.

And anyways, think. Do you really think Disney would spend the money to make a one track layout like DLP's version in there even though the ride still has the longest wait in the park (90 min. last time I went)?

I think not.

If they replace the tracks with the same track layouts as it has now, change the scenery, new single file trains, more darkness, and a soundtrack, that's basicly all it needs.

Once again, I'm gonna use the NoLimits Simulator to prove this.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

^ Wait times are an indication of nothing. Any ride can be made better, and the general public are the last people who should be the engine behind how far WDI's imagination goes. TDA is falling into this trap AND I HATE IT!

My only point here is that there is an opportunity to make MK's Space Mountain a better ride since all the versions of Space Mountain created after it were built better than it. A big part of making MK's Space better is changing the currently underwhelming track layout. Why is that necessary? Because they got the Matterhorn under that roof. In 2007 & beyond, they can do better.

Matterhorn works here in CA because its not in the dark with a bunch of stars. It has views outside, zippy encounters with Harold, and a splash down ending. So there's no need to change the Matterhorn, but MK's Space Mountain will be lacking until it's changed from that layout. I want to see WDW do better than 'Space Matterhorn'.

-- PMM :cool:

[WDITrent]

I think inversions is a little much for a family coaster at WDW.

[WDITrent]

okay... so what's going on in the second lift?

[DisneyParksFan]

^ Wait times are an indication of nothing. Any ride can be made better, and the general public are the last people who should be the engine behind how far WDI's imagination goes. TDA is falling into this trap AND I HATE IT!

I agree with you 100% on that. That formula is seen almost everywhere today. My thoughts are that some things should not always be designed after what the public wants, but what you want the public to want. Sure, you dont want to just throw their ideas on the street. Just keep them in mind, not always keeping them the major fear or goal.
If you can make sure it is creative and thought out, you can easily make it something the general public would want to experience. Whether it's through effective marketing or word of mouth, people will come.
'If you build it, they will come'
If it's not right or a failure on some level, then you can worry about the smaller (or sometimes larger) details that will truly make the public come back and enjoy it.

The problem is that there's always the issue dealing with money, will we make or lose money? It's up to you to decide if that is important or not. It is a business after all, but a creative business.

If you cant take a risk...then you're not really allowing yourself to expand outside of that box.

~DisneyParksFan

[PeoplemoverMatt]

I also don't understand this whole 'originality is too risky' concept. Just look at the Tower of Terror that opened in Tokyo DisneySea. A park that already was so mind-blowing that it didn't, what we would perceive as 'need' another E-ticket, but it built one and with an original theme. The result? That Tower has had longer wait times and FP's selling out faster than I'd ever seen in the USA, either at CA or FL.

Now if you foolishly use that as an indicator of worth, as it so often is around here, that should be a shining indication that originality triumphed over even a classic TV show theme in the Twilight Zone. Right? Isn't that how it works?

Frankly, I think popularity and risk are simply convenient euphemisms to cover up laziness. I think Disney in the USA has become far too lazy to first think up a mind-blowing original attraction, build it, and advertise it. Instead the visionless Disney Board would rather simply recycle movie themes from 1-10 years ago because its easier. Then if problems such as anger from stomping all over Disneyland's history arise, they'll simply make up another euphemism or come up with some gibberish such as Pirate's Lair on Tom Sawyer Island to quickly sweep it under the rug.

So the question becomes, could the Shriki Utundu have been a bigger hit in DCA than the Twilight Zone? I think it certainly could have, IF the effort seen in DisneySea in all aspects of their Tower from exterior to the huge lobby to the CMs performing live pre-shows all throughout the day to 20ft high props where we have a cartoonish boiler room. Problem is that laziness comes back in that we all know TDA would most likely look at that and think it's too much trouble, expense or whatever. It's laziness, plain & simple.

This is the point - if the parks put out the effort, the public will put out their effort to come see it and not think doing something like flying 12 hours is that big of a deal. That's avoiding risk, not generating more of it. If a park becomes like DCA, then even the locals won't think it's worth coming out to see it. If it's not worth it to come out, then the CMs stop thinking its worth putting out their all to make it special, and it spirals out of control from there. Why risk that situation?

And it all could be avoided if we simply ditch this cheap mindset and ditch this ill-perceived notion that popularity alone merits existence. WDW is falling into the laziness trap and should use Space Mountain as the first step out of the hole, not further bury themselves under another shovel-full of dirt.

-- PMM :cool:

[monkey4057]

since the current layout is identical to Disneyland's Matterhorn

Um, excuse me, but the tracks are not identical to each other
MK's SM starts with a U-turn, makes a brief stop, and then dips
Matterhorn sets off, makes a brief stop, and then curves down and does an S-Bend

I'm sure there are many other track differnces but that's one of them

And besides, the two tracks make it unique, and it's the 1st one

Someone who prefers the original PPM doesn't prefer the original SM?:confused:Odd IMHO

Thank You. (rant done)

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Um, excuse me, but the tracks are not identical to each other
MK's SM starts with a U-turn, makes a brief stop, and then dips
Matterhorn sets off, makes a brief stop, and then curves down and does an S-Bend

Sounds like you've got your sides confused a bit...




Someone who prefers the original PPM doesn't prefer the original SM?:confused:Odd IMHO


And that's odd because...? I don't recall ever once using the fact something's original to help prove superiority over something else. If you wanna say I did that about POTC...go back and check again. :smile:

-- PMM :cool:

[Big Disney Fan]

And it all could be avoided if we simply ditch this cheap mindset and ditch this ill-perceived notion that popularity alone merits existence. WDW is falling into the laziness trap and should use Space Mountain as the first step out of the hole, not further bury themselves under another shovel-full of dirt.

Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I think the only way to get WDW out of the laziness hole is to become Imagineers ourselves. And I'm not talking about pretend Imagineers like on this website here, I'm talking about REAL Imagineers. Even then, I'm not so sure, given how Disney is really obsessed with being cheap these day. Believe me, I'd REALLY like to see some new mind-blowing, knock-outing attractions to be added to ALL parks.

Okay, I think we're getting a bit off-topic here. Let's get back to discussing the "new" Space Mountain, huh?

[monkey4057]

Yes, let's

[CostaFreak]

Change effects and scenery...keep track layout. Simple as that. I don't wan't DLP's version in there, and it was originally meant to be WDW's version of the Matterhorn.

Here's the story, just in case some people don't know:

In the 60's and early 70's, while WDW was under construction, there were plans to put a Matterhorn in MK's Fantasyland. Imagineers decided to drop that since it would make MK as if it was an exact but larger copy of Disneyland, so Imagineers went to work on ressurecting the old Space Port idea, which was then planned to open in MK's Tomorrowland the same year WDW was to open.

The Space Port was supposed to be MK's Matterhorn, since 2 tracks were supposed to enter and exit the mountain multiple times, just like, well, you should know by now. Then around 1971, the same year MK opened, the ride idea had to be slightly changed, due to the wet weather of Florida, into a full on indoor coaster in the dark.

As I said, our version of SM was intentionally made like that since it was supposed to be MK's Matterhorn, and by changing the ride layout into a twisting, turning, inverting one track coaster, that would be destroying our Matterhorn.

I'm in for changing effects, added darkness, new trains, maybe even a slight launch at the top, but please, for the love of God, don't change the track layouts!

Rant ended.

[mickeymexica]

Does anyone know when, or even if, space mountain at MK will get its 2008 refurb? I really want to go either before or after its refurb, I'm thinking of may 2008 as a good date to go but I just don't know if SM will be running or not!!! :P

[disneyfreak59]

hmmm it deffinately needs a refurbishment, it really is "outdated" for 2007. I'd like to see the tracks change. There's a TON of room to play with, and either a new single track, or double track will do. But i'd like to see a single track packed with thrills ;)

[CostaFreak]

To quote what I said:

Change effects and scenery...keep track layout. Simple as that. I don't wan't DLP's version in there, and it was originally meant to be WDW's version of the Matterhorn.

Here's the story, just in case some people don't know:

In the 60's and early 70's, while WDW was under construction, there were plans to put a Matterhorn in MK's Fantasyland. Imagineers decided to drop that since it would make MK as if it was an exact but larger copy of Disneyland, so Imagineers went to work on ressurecting the old Space Port idea, which was then planned to open in MK's Tomorrowland the same year WDW was to open.

The Space Port was supposed to be MK's Matterhorn, since 2 tracks were supposed to enter and exit the mountain multiple times, just like, well, you should know by now. Then around 1971, the same year MK opened, the ride idea had to be slightly changed, due to the wet weather of Florida, into a full on indoor coaster in the dark.

As I said, our version of SM was intentionally made like that since it was supposed to be MK's Matterhorn, and by changing the ride layout into a twisting, turning, inverting one track coaster, that would be destroying our Matterhorn.

I'm in for changing effects, added darkness, new trains, maybe even a slight launch at the top, but please, for the love of God, don't change the track layouts!

Rant ended.

I give Disney 12 months to do what they want to the scenery, trains, effects, and soundtrack. BUT I hope they don't do anything to the track, and I'm telling you they won't. They can't shut it down for more than a year since WDW gets bigger attendance than the other resorts, so they should do what ever they can to the ride in 12 months. A 12 month refurb can bring great things, but it won't be enough time to put in new track, so I'm telling you right now, a new track layout is not gonna happen, at least not anytime soon.

Now, a new track layout could happen in 2030 if they decide to do a mission 3 refurb since by then, technology will allow them to refurb faster. Until then, Space Matterhorn is what you got, and Space Matterhorn is what you're gonna get.

[disneyfreak59]

well i AM entitled to my own opinion and that was it.

[CostaFreak]

^ Sorry, it was just a continuation of a rant.

Now...rant over.

[Facnyface]

According to my records they will be doing SM rehab for about a year starting late jan 08..

[jorgetheviking]

I really hope our Space Mountain gets a re-furb because it needs it. I want the same layout though. It seems like WDW is getting their act together with the Haunted Mansion and Spaceship Earth re-furbs! :D