Epcot Is Dying

[HMF]

Today i heard the horrible news that the Living Seas will be totally taken over by Nemo and friends. EPCOT is no longer what it should be. It is turning into another Magic Kingdom.The real world element is slowly fading. I am angry and i will not stand by this.:icon_evil It is time to bring EPCOT back to its former glory.:icon_cry:

[PeoplemoverMatt]

The Nemo overlay to The Living Seas is old news. While it's another movie-based theme invasion of an attraction, I hardly think Epcot's spirit is dying because of it. I don't think this is like the Pirates movie-additions at all. I think the Nemo characters here are there to help kids learn about the Seas, but I could be wrong. I need to understand more of the context & role the Nemo characters have here before I can call this either way.

-- PMM :cool:

[BCC]

Wasn't this the way it was for a LONG time?

[DisneyParksFan]

I think the Nemo characters here are there to help kids learn about the Seas, but I could be wrong. I need to understand more of the context & role the Nemo characters have here before I can call this either way.

-- PMM :cool:

I think that they are used for educational purposes as well as a movie tie-in.

-mickey2006

[Cutthroat CGM]

You called it, Matt and Mickey. Nemo and friends are there to help introduce the wonders of the sea to the kids, not to hog the spotlight. (Well, except for Crush, but that's another story.) It's just a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down. ;)

It is turning into another Magic Kingdom.The real world element is slowly fading. It is time to bring EPCOT back to its former glory.

Former glory indeed. To quote a Billy Joel song, "Y'know the good ol' days weren't always good, and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems." In the 80's and early 90's, the main gripe with the park was "too much education, not enough entertainment." Back when Eisner started making major changes in '94, EPCOT's attendance was dropping like a rock. Say what you will about Ellen, Test Track, Mission Space and Soarin', but they put butts in the seats (to use a wrestling expression) as Exxon's UOE, WOM, Horizons and Kitchen Kabaret/Food Rocks never could. There's nothing wrong with the park right now.

Well, nothing that another country or two in WS, the resurrection of the original JII and a few barrels of TNT at the base of the wand wouldn't cure...

[DisneyParksFan]

You called it, Matt and Mickey. Nemo and friends are there to help introduce the wonders of the sea to the kids, not to hog the spotlight. (Well, except for Crush, but that's another story.) It's just a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down. ;)

It is turning into another Magic Kingdom.The real world element is slowly fading. It is time to bring EPCOT back to its former glory.

Former glory indeed. To quote a Billy Joel song, "Y'know the good ol' days weren't always good, and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems." In the 80's and early 90's, the main gripe with the park was "too much education, not enough entertainment." Back when Eisner started making major changes in '94, EPCOT's attendance was dropping like a rock. Say what you will about Ellen, Test Track, Mission Space and Soarin', but they put butts in the seats (to use a wrestling expression) as Exxon's UOE, WOM, Horizons and Kitchen Kabaret/Food Rocks never could. There's nothing wrong with the park right now.

Well, nothing that another country or two in WS, the resurrection of the original JII and a few barrels of TNT at the base of the wand wouldn't cure...


One word: Nice

:cool:


Because of the type of park it is, the Education and the Thrill Factors will always be pushing back and forth. Sometimes one will come out on top while the other falls below. Then another push happens, education is key and thrill is pushed into the shadows.
The world is always changing.
Remember what one finds bad, another finds good.


-mickey2006

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Remember what one finds bad, another finds good.
I'm sorry but this is post-modernist hogwash. Bad is bad, good is good regardless of what color glasses you're looking at it through.

-- PMM :cool:

[DisneyParksFan]

I'm sorry but this is post-modernist hogwash. Bad is bad, good is good regardless of what color glasses you're looking at it through.

-- PMM :cool:

I was saying that somebody might find an educational attraction boring (bad) while another looks at it as being enjoyable experience (good). :)


-mickey2006

[monorailred]

EPCOT is great. I too miss the WOM, Horizons, and the ORIGINAL JII. It would have been great to have Mission Space and Test Track be additions to the park, but their transformations are great attractions. That cannot be said about JII. EPCOT is not dying - it is evolving.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

I was saying that somebody might find an educational attraction boring (bad) while another looks at it as being enjoyable experience (good). :)


-mickey2006

While I don't want to hijack this thread into a good/bad debate, good/bad really isn't the issue regarding the edutainment. I might find it interesting, others might be bored to death, but that's just reaction. People react based on their value systems usually, and there's where good/bad is really found. People can debate it over & over but it still won't change what good/bad really are. That's a condensed nutshell but in the interest of keeping on topic, that's all I'll say about that.

Epcot must change over time as consumer demand changes over time. What we might be seeing because of the negative reaction to Mission Space is a turn away from the 'thrilling' and back to the calmer high quality edutainment seen in attractions such a Spaceship Earth. This I believe is healthy for the long term because it fits with Disney's niche demographic. Disney wants to build rides enjoyable for all ages, usually not one age over another like the teen-friendly scream parks. This is most easily achieved by building the high quality edutainment attractions mixed in with moderate thrills, as seen in Mission Space Team Green. :smile:

-- PMM :cool:

[turlaach]

Now I don't really want to get into the Good/Bad debate, but of course I have to! I would say these are opinions, facts are different. Good and Bad as a fact cannot be changed. But as an opinion its open to debate, there is no fixed answer. For instance I say that the pirates changes are good, other say they're bad. But the reality is that theyre good and bad in different ways, so they'res no fixed answer. We return to opinions. This is of course, my opinion

Meanwhile, back on topic I think this

It's just a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down. ;)


pretty much sums it up for me!

[DisneyParksFan]

While I don't want to hijack this thread into a good/bad debate, good/bad really isn't the issue regarding the edutainment. I might find it interesting, others might be bored to death, but that's just reaction. People react based on their value systems usually, and there's where good/bad is really found. People can debate it over & over but it still won't change what good/bad really are. That's a condensed nutshell but in the interest of keeping on topic, that's all I'll say about that.
-- PMM :cool:


Ok, I see what you are saying. :p


A feel that the problem is that they cant really add on to Epcot because of the way the park was designed. I mean sure, they can out in a few little things here and there. But if they truly wanted to add on another major attraction, it involves the taking down of another. The pavailions were designed a little too close together to add in another major attraction without it being a little bit out the way. Now it is possible to add one in, but it could be difficult.

Maybe to 'bring back the magic' they could try some new Future World Closing light show throughout Innoventions Plaza, East Side and West Side. It could take place a little before Illuminations; just a thought.
It could include the Disney magic touch with a futuristic feel and have it say something about Future World is now closing and about how to dreams of today pave the way of the visions of tomorrow. <----- something along those lines :)


-mickey2005

[LoehnWolf]

I think its all about matter of tastes. I know people who think Spaceship Earth is boring. I know people who think its the best ride there. You cant please every taste. BUT, I think with parks today utilizing new technology and larger thrills alot of people, especially kids are bored with Epcot. Ok let me correct that. They like Test Track and Mission Space and then they get antsy almost anywhere else. So yeah I think Epcot needs to mix a little thrill with a little learning.Kids today arent as easily amused as when I was growing up.

[Space_Mt.]

As long as we don't get Buzz Lightyear's Norway or The Incredible's Morrocco then i'm fine.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

^ Unfortunately, that could easily happen. I mean if Mulan came out in 2006, you know someone would propose a new Mulan-themed attraction in Japan. Should Disney ever have a Mexican character, the Mexican IASW there now had better watch out. That's the current mindset now & it's very very sad.

-- PMM :cool:

[wdwmickeyfan]

^
Mulan is Chinese, not Japanese.

[Harrison Hightower III]

[Edited, please check your PMs]


HHIII

[wdwmickeyfan]

I'm not a fan of any particular resort (though you could say I was biased towards WDW at a point). Yes, Walt Disney World is a great resort and all but it is far from perfect. There are a lot of "issues" that need to be dealt with, and I'm pretty sure everybody here has been to WDW at one point or another in last few years.

By the way.... WDW is no longer by favorite resort, that title belongs to Tokyo Disney Resort. Everything there surpassed my expectations, unlike WDW.

[Harrison Hightower III]

I said it was my favorite, but mainly because its the only one I've ever been to. I also never said it was perefect I'm just saying I think you folks are to quick to jump to conclusions just because one little thing is changed!!!


HHIII

[HMF]

^ Unfortunately, that could easily happen. I mean if Mulan came out in 2006, you know someone would propose a new Mulan-themed attraction in Japan.-- PMM :cool:
Mulan took place in China.:wink: It will be very sad if they ruin my park with commercialism. EPCOT is one of the few things left that gives you an optimistic view of the future. Especialy in todays world. And Disney bringing in Disney charachters to narrate the rides defeats the spirit and point of EPCOT.:icon_cry:

[PeoplemoverMatt]

HHIII - Discussion happens. No one is going to like the same things you like or I like. There's nothing wrong with people voicing their views and opinions, especially when that's the whole point of the board. If you disagree with someone's views, make it a discussion. If you think people are wrong, present your case as to why in the thread. Jumping up & down about the fact someone disagrees with you is rather unproductive.

-- PMM :cool:

[turlaach]

I think that the point of Epcot is part to entertain, part to educate. And the kids of today aren't going to be interested by just a few pretty displays that are colourful with a friendly narration. They need something they recognise the help them along the way. Like Nemo at the Living Seas, it is just a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down.

[Mr. EPCOT]

A feel that the problem is that they cant really add on to Epcot because of the way the park was designed. I mean sure, they can out in a few little things here and there. But if they truly wanted to add on another major attraction, it involves the taking down of another. The pavailions were designed a little too close together to add in another major attraction without it being a little bit out the way. Now it is possible to add one in, but it could be difficult.

Believe it or not, it is the complete opposite. Epcot has the most space out of ANY park to build new attractions/pavilions. There are wide expanses of space backstage throughout most of the park. One example I like to use is that they could have built Test Track next to World of Motion with its own custom building as a supplementary experience to the Transportation pavilion. It would roughly sit where the outside loop is. It is rather unfortunate, too, that Mission: SPACE is such a dinky building, that they tore down the big, beautiful Horizons structure. There are a myriad of places they could have built SPACE without sacrificing another attraction. And if they HAD to sacrifice another pavilion, I would have opted for Wonders of Life. They could have installed the simulators into the Body Wars area, and had the rest of the pavilion for other Space exhibits and attractions. The dome even almost looks like a space colony. Although, I think Mission: SPACE itself would have been a better replacement for Alien Encounter in Tomorrowland, considering the location's history. I think the look and feel of SPACE is exactly what Tomorrowland needs.

As to the title of this thread, I think Epcot is alive and well, but EPCOT Center is murdered and dead. They have essentially built another park on top of another, at least as Future World is concerned. I would personally much rather have EPCOT Center.

Sorry, I didn't mean to ramble.

[turlaach]

The real EPCOT of course, was never built.

[HMF]

I think that the point of Epcot is part to entertain, part to educate. And the kids of today aren't going to be interested by just a few pretty displays that are colourful with a friendly narration. They need something they recognise the help them along the way. Like Nemo at the Living Seas, it is just a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down.
I prefer the medicene.:wink:
--------------------------------------Double post added here.
[QUOTE=ImagineerMMC]
As to the title of this thread, I think Epcot is alive and well, but EPCOT Center is murdered and dead. They have essentially built another park on top of another, at least as Future World is concerned. I would personally much rather have EPCOT Center.
QUOTE]
Whats the difference. I still see the name EPCOT center all over the park. EPCOT and EPCOT Center are still the same park as of right now at least.:smile:

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Maybe but neither exist technically. At the risk of repeating myself, I'll point out that the proper and official name for the park is "Epcot" (no caps).

-- PMM :cool:

[HMF]

More news on the destruction of Epcot. They are replacing Reflections of Earth with something called SKYDANCE. The name is terrible has nothing to do with the spirit of Epcot and the last nail in the coffin.:mad: Michael Eisner please come back!

[PeoplemoverMatt]

HMF - It would help a great deal if you could cite your source while disclosing information such as this.

-- PMM :cool:

[SWERJ321]

As Epcot has long been my favorite of the parks (lost count how many times I've been there in the last 20 years), I feel a need to defend it. Yeah, I do miss some of the old style rides, World of Motion, the original Living Seas and Imagination and even Horizons. But that style of ride wouldn't work as well with today's youth. There's a difference between "timeless" and "Backward."

Plus, as someone mentioned, the early EPCOT Center was really overloading the information. I MUCH prefer Ellen's Energy Adventure over the lecture that was the original UOE. And Test Track adn Space are more thrilling than their forebearers. I do have hopes for LIving Seas as that can really mix teaching kids about the seas with the addition of the Nemo guys.

The point is, Walt Disney never intended for Disneyland or Disney World to be the same always, but always be changing and evolving. This is just a continuation of it. True when they change some things it can be bad (Imagination) but can also improve (Spaceship Earth, Innoventions, Circle of Life). Just give it a chance for a bit.

Also, what's wrong with changing Illuminations? It's been almost seven years, it's due for a change just as Reflections replaced the old program. And what's with it being "Old EPCOT?" It opened a full six years after the rest of the park.

[Mr. EPCOT]

More news on the destruction of Epcot. They are replacing Reflections of Earth with something called SKYDANCE. The name is terrible has nothing to do with the spirit of Epcot and the last nail in the coffin.:mad: Michael Eisner please come back!

This is a rumor from other discussion boards. This is in no way anywhere near being official.
--------------------------------------Double post added here.
As Epcot has long been my favorite of the parks (lost count how many times I've been there in the last 20 years), I feel a need to defend it. Yeah, I do miss some of the old style rides, World of Motion, the original Living Seas and Imagination and even Horizons. But that style of ride wouldn't work as well with today's youth. There's a difference between "timeless" and "Backward."

Plus, as someone mentioned, the early EPCOT Center was really overloading the information. I MUCH prefer Ellen's Energy Adventure over the lecture that was the original UOE. And Test Track adn Space are more thrilling than their forebearers. I do have hopes for LIving Seas as that can really mix teaching kids about the seas with the addition of the Nemo guys.

The point is, Walt Disney never intended for Disneyland or Disney World to be the same always, but always be changing and evolving. This is just a continuation of it. True when they change some things it can be bad (Imagination) but can also improve (Spaceship Earth, Innoventions, Circle of Life). Just give it a chance for a bit.

Also, what's wrong with changing Illuminations? It's been almost seven years, it's due for a change just as Reflections replaced the old program. And what's with it being "Old EPCOT?" It opened a full six years after the rest of the park.

Sorry, I didn't mean to double post here.

IllumiNations has gone through several incarnations since it debuted on January 30th, 1988, which was already preceded by Carnival de Lumiere (1982), A New World Fantasy (1983), and Laserphonic Fantasy (1984). IllumiNations: Reflections of Earth bears very little resemblance to the original version from 1988. The way IllumiNations has evolved over the years is really how I would love to have seen all of the original EPCOT Center pavilions evolve, constantly being upgraded and enhanced. They would stay modern, and may end up completely different, but the heart and spirit of the attraction would be the same.

[HMF]

.
Also, what's wrong with changing Illuminations? It's been almost seven years, it's due for a change just as Reflections replaced the old program. And what's with it being "Old EPCOT?" It opened a full six years after the rest of the park.
Reflections Of Earth is a very emotional and spiritual. And it is very personal to me.

[makeminemusic]

Reflections Of Earth is a very emotional and spiritual. And it is very personal to me.

Personally I am ready for a change..Reflections Of Earth...well I found it kinda slow to my liking.

Now as to Epcot dying...I found it interesting that my teenage daughters made a comment about Epcot when we went there last month. They have been there about 5 times in there lives, roughly 2-4 years in between each visit. Almost every time they said Epcot was best except this time. They do not like the changes made in last few years. But that could be age related;)

Now myself, having been there several times since it opened it was always my favorite until this trip. I now consider MGM my favorite park for an overall experience. It's not that I miss the old attractions at Epcot (which I do), but I do not feel like they have evolved enough to keep the park exciting for me. I was looking forward to seeing Soarin as it is one of my favrites at DLR, but the que left me thinking "This is not up to standards!" Nothing to look at going into the ride!!

No, I do not see Epcot dying......maybe fading a bit...but it can be brought back to it's glory if Disney leadership has the right vision for it.:cool:

[k_peek_2000]

You guys arnt even keeping in mind that Epcot is nothing like what it was meant to be. I think that if walt were alive he could of done a real Epcot and not the easyway out WAY overpriced theme park, even thought the place is amazing. I would kill to see a real experimental prototype city of tomarrow!

[Neo]

everyone might want to keep in mind that there are laws Disney World has to abide by meaning if its a prototype you probably wont ever have it in a theme park and with all the newer safety laws soon we will have seat belts on splash mountain. Some of the problems I see with todays theme parks are the restrictions we put on them when it is not really needed.

Some things are common sense people. "Dont stand up on a moving vehicle." and you shouldnt need to tell someone something more than twice. If you repeat yourself that many times and they still dont get it then most likely they never will.

LOL I think I got way off topic but I am just a lil steamed over common sense laws that dont need to be there.

[HMF]

You guys arnt even keeping in mind that Epcot is nothing like what it was meant to be. I think that if walt were alive he could of done a real Epcot and not the easyway out WAY overpriced theme park, even thought the place is amazing. I would kill to see a real experimental prototype city of tomarrow!
Yes the original Epcot concept was cool but i am really glad they made Epcot Center as we know it today.;)

[Clotho]

I admit that I felt Epcot could have been more. More specifically, Future World. I have been to some smaller less-ambitious science museums with more interesting and hands-on exhibits. Also, I found that it looks pretty worn down when I was there. Many exhibits down or broken, worn paint...very un-Disney.

I loved World Showcase, and the newer rides were great. Most of the other attractions were a bit dated and uninteresting for me.

That said, the stuff I did like made me adore Epcot, and I will stay at Boardwalk again on my next trip so I can walk over there any time I want. :)

[roll_coast_me]

wait you guys. Walt disney didn't want an outside world park. evry time you entered on of his parks he would want you to feel like youare somewhere else.

[Magic1]

wait you guys. Walt disney didn't want an outside world park. evry time you entered on of his parks he would want you to feel like youare somewhere else.
Perhaps this is why why DCA doesn't really work :wink: but I'm not really convinced that Walt didn't want an "outside world park". Working on the World's Fair projects was very influential to Walt and contributed much to Epcot's development. In DL --the only park Walt walked through-- any transportation of guests to places real (e.g. NOS) or imagined, was done in a specific context of time and place, limiting reference to outside woes.

We can't really guess what what Walt would've wanted for parks designed after his death. Perhaps TDL, DLP, and HKDL would've been completely different.

[Mr. EPCOT]

everyone might want to keep in mind that there are laws Disney World has to abide by meaning if its a prototype you probably wont ever have it in a theme park and with all the newer safety laws soon we will have seat belts on splash mountain. Some of the problems I see with todays theme parks are the restrictions we put on them when it is not really needed.

Some things are common sense people. "Dont stand up on a moving vehicle." and you shouldnt need to tell someone something more than twice. If you repeat yourself that many times and they still dont get it then most likely they never will.

LOL I think I got way off topic but I am just a lil steamed over common sense laws that dont need to be there.

Well, then, you might want to keep in mind that Walt Disney World has it's very own government, known as the Reedy Creek Improvement District (www.rcid.org). The Company was given somewhat legal flexibility to be able to deal with the issues of building an Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow. Building our own nuclear power plant and experimental airport were among the many rights granted to us by the state, which are still valid today if the Company so chose to build them.

[Neo]

but the question i have is that it states this

and interface with local, regional, state and federal regulatory agencies.
and
must operate in accordance with its charter and state laws governing such districts.

It is not its own government but its own "city" or "county" it must abide by state and federal laws. No place in the USofA can break federal laws and no place in the state of Florida can break Florida laws. It is how the US was built. On top of that they must integrate with local, state, and federal officials to make sure they are not breaking those laws.

[HMF]

but the question i have is that it states this


and


It is not its own government but its own "city" or "county" it must abide by state and federal laws. No place in the USofA can break federal laws and no place in the state of Florida can break Florida laws. It is how the US was built. On top of that they must integrate with local, state, and federal officials to make sure they are not breaking those laws.
Well of course it applies to the laws of the United States. Its not like the Vatican which is a country within a country. Though WDW being its own country would be cool.

[Neo]

but what I am saying is that it still must abide by all safety laws for amusement parks. All of those safety laws and ADA laws for handicaps are based off both federal and state laws not city or county laws. Meaning my point is confirmed that they must abide by laws.

[DisneyParksFan]

but what I am saying is that it still must abide by all safety laws for amusement parks. All of those safety laws and ADA laws for handicaps are based off both federal and state laws not city or county laws. Meaning my point is confirmed that they must abide by laws.

Yeah, and all of that would cause issues with the initially planned theme park within this working and living atmosphere.

Even if they built Epcot, it would have taken many upon many of years to complete that by the time the city was finished, it would be out dated in not only technology but probably also buildings codes and what not.


-mickey2005

[Neo]

exactly my point. Back when Walt had these ideas we didnt have safety codes and such. And the main reason I believe we have safety codes is plain old common sense. We have lap bars on space mountain so people wont stand up and that is outrageous. We dont need half the safety devices we have. sure screamin' needs the harness because it has airtime and a loop(which actually needs no harness) and ToT needs seat belts because you cant stay in your seat otherwise. But some of the rides dont need seat belts.

Sure Seat belts is my only arguement here but that is because thats one thing everyone sees. And mickey2005 has another excellent point that by the time you make this city it will be outdated. The second you buy a computer its outdated and a couple years later its obesoulete.

So far from what hear Epcot is awesome and it only needs to be updated. Epcot doesn't need nostalgia rides because as stated before its a park of the future and therefore always needs updating and newer rides.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Epcot doesn't need nostalgia rides because as stated before its a park of the future and therefore always needs updating and newer rides.

Epcot has a great place for nostalgia - World Showcase. You want nostalgia? Build it there. Personally, I'm very nostalgic about Malestrom, but that might have more to do with the fact I can't take that ride seriously for 1 second. :tongue:

Future World though is like a huge Tomorrowland. It needs to be about what Walt described as the challenge and promise of the future. About what Steve Martin described as the possibilites of the future, such as going to the Moon before real astronauts back in the day. Currently we can ride Mission: SPACE and go to Mars before real astronauts do. As long as GM & Test Track stays on the cutting edge, there won't be any problem. Spaceship Earth is the perfect ride for Future World in that while it shows you the progress of the past, the point is its look to the future and understand the future in the context of the past. No room for out-of-place criticism there.

-- PMM :cool:

[HMF]

Epcot has a great place for nostalgia - World Showcase. You want nostalgia? Build it there. Personally, I'm very nostalgic about Malestrom, but that might have more to do with the fact I can't take that ride seriously for 1 second. :tongue:

Future World though is like a huge Tomorrowland. It needs to be about what Walt described as the challenge and promise of the future. About what Steve Martin described as the possibilites of the future, such as going to the Moon before real astronauts back in the day. Currently we can ride Mission: SPACE and go to Mars before real astronauts do. As long as GM & Test Track stays on the cutting edge, there won't be any problem. Spaceship Earth is the perfect ride for Future World in that while it shows you the progress of the past, the point is its look to the future and understand the future in the context of the past. No room from out-of-place criticism there.

-- PMM :cool:
Perfect description.:p

[Mr. EPCOT]

Yeah, and all of that would cause issues with the initially planned theme park within this working and living atmosphere.

Even if they built Epcot, it would have taken many upon many of years to complete that by the time the city was finished, it would be out dated in not only technology but probably also buildings codes and what not.


-mickey2005

That's not quite right, because one of the goals of EPCOT was to be built so that it would be versatile enough to be constantly incorporating new technologies into its design. The same thing with the building codes. In fact, the EPCOT codes are probably the only concrete thing that has ever really come out of the EPCOT concept, as they are still in effect at WDW today, and flexible enough to serve our needs, just as they were always intended to be.

[DisneyParksFan]

That's not quite right, because one of the goals of EPCOT was to be built so that it would be versatile enough to be constantly incorporating new technologies into its design.

But once the project was completed, the design and systems featured in it would have been out dated. They just would have ended up needing to re-design those areas to bring them up to date.
The problem was that the project was going to be to big that by the time it would be finished, it would be considered to be in the past.

[HMF]

I will never visit Epcot again. Any hope of the Living Seas not becoming Nemoland is diminished. Marketing is apparently more important than Education.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

You needn't be so pessimistic HMF. We don't really know what exactly will be altered (unlike Pirates when we did know), and some folks have said that the role of the Nemo characters is to enhance the education rather than diminish it. If it was being built to simply function as a re-creation of the Nemo movie and nothing else, then I'd agree with you. But from what I know of this, that's not what it's meant to be.

If they bring in the Nemo characters to enhance the edutainment, and the kids enjoy being edutained, then I'm all for it. It's a productive role for the characters.

-- The Chief :cool:

[HMF]

You needn't be so pessimistic HMF. We don't really know what exactly will be altered (unlike Pirates when we did know), and some folks have said that the role of the Nemo characters is to enhance the education rather than diminish it. If it was being built to simply function as a re-creation of the Nemo movie and nothing else, then I'd agree with you. But from what I know of this, that's not what it's meant to be.

If they bring in the Nemo characters to enhance the edutainment, and the kids enjoy being edutained, then I'm all for it. It's a productive role for the characters.

-- The Chief :cool:
I guess you are right. Its only one attraction and i will get over it eventually. Its just i wish they didint have to change the theme and title of the attraction. But as long as its in the spirit of Epcot. The good news is they are getting rid of Honey I Bored the Audience.;)

[cold caller]

The good news is they are getting rid of Honey I Bored the Audience.;)


I like that ride. :frown: :frown: :frown: :frown:

[Edited for Grammar]

-Space.

[Mr. EPCOT]

My problem with what is happening to The Living Seas is that they are shifting the focus of the pavilion to merely being about sea life, instead of educating about advancement in sea exploration. I would personally much rather know about about what cool stuff is out there being developed to explore the ocean. I also hate the new paint job inside. The first time I went in there after it had reopened, I said I'd probably never come back until the new ride is open. Well, I gave it a second chance yesterday, after hearing that they had added some additional detailing and such. It is still awful. Whoever redesigned the interior there could certainly use some lessons from John Hench about color.

[ElecTronic]

Heres what i think about this delayed topic. Though i would rather The Living Seas been left alone, i will miss the movie where the lady would say "it rained, rained, rained, and rained." Though there have been alot of really bad changes at Epcot recently, this one might be a little bit of a exception. Though i would much rather have Sea Base Alpha, i think Finding Nemo is a acceptional replacement. Oh and i agree with ImagineerMMC i do like the old paint job better aswell. and thats my 2 cents

[WDWanimation]

Although The Living Seas seems to be fine, Im hopeing they can bring a fun filled attraction that can educate guests as well. I think before we make assumptions you need to see the attraction first. Like Chief O'Brian said, were not really sure what is going to be alterted.

[WelcomeFoolishMortals999]

My problem with what is happening to The Living Seas is that they are shifting the focus of the pavilion to merely being about sea life, instead of educating about advancement in sea exploration.
This is true; the focus of EPCOT Center was scientific exploration, especially that of the future. Taking away this detracts from the entire point of Epcot.

HMFan, I don't believe that Epcot is a place of education at all. I go to Epcot to be entertained; I could learn the same information by researching and reading. Epcot only provides very basic information, but I do like the environment it provides for us to be entertained.

WelcomeFoolishMortals999

[crystaltink]

So I'm assuming with the Living Seas it's a possiblity that the restaurant will go with that as well am I right?

[PeoplemoverMatt]

HMFan, I don't believe that Epcot is a place of education at all. I go to Epcot to be entertained; I could learn the same information by researching and reading. Epcot only provides very basic information, but I do like the environment it provides for us to be entertained.

True, you may research on your own & discover far more than what an Epcot ride may tell you. But, the average person would never dream of voluntarily doing a library research project, and for most kids, the prospect of going to the library ranks right up there with the dentist. So, I give props to Epcot for at least making the attempt and skillfully weaving it with an entertaining and sometimes jaw-dropping attraction.

-- PMM :cool:

[k_peek_2000]

I will never visit Epcot again. Any hope of the Living Seas not becoming Nemoland is diminished. Marketing is apparently more important than Education.
Your just saying that, because if you ask 99.9% of all students out there, they would agree with the fact that anything is more important than education, if you ask any large buisness in america or the world they will also agree, Marketing is more important than education. Its business. Disney wouldnt be disney if it werent for the sometimes brillaint marketing.

[HMF]

Your just saying that, because if you ask 99.9% of all students out there, they would agree with the fact that anything is more important than education, if you ask any large buisness in america or the world they will also agree, Marketing is more important than education. Its business. Disney wouldnt be disney if it werent for the sometimes brillaint marketing.
You do need education to work in marketing.;)

[Neo]

define education for me please

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Your just saying that, because if you ask 99.9% of all students out there, they would agree with the fact that anything is more important than education, if you ask any large buisness in america or the world they will also agree, Marketing is more important than education. Its business. Disney wouldnt be disney if it werent for the sometimes brillaint marketing.

Well obviously students would rather go on the Buzz Lightyear ride instead of learning something about the history of human communication, as summarized and wowified as it may be. There is a very misguided assumption out there that education and having fun are two entirely seperate elements that could never hope to be interwoven together. More than that, any person who attempts to educate themselves is looked on as a geek, nerd, loser, etc & buckling down in studies is extremely devalued by the pop culture of today.

I disagree. I believe that people can have the time of their lives while learning something they never knew before. Just look at Mission: Space or Test Track. Mission: Space gave me a window of the intensity that goes into training to be an astronaut. I knew about those centrifuges & the G-forces they have to endure, and I got a chance to feel it, at least a little bit. With Test Track, we see a little bit into the testing of cars before they go out on the road. They aren't very educating at all, but they are informing, and they are also quite thrilling original attractions. I see nothing wrong at all with designing more rides in that sort of template. Edutainment can exist and it can work very well.

-- PMM :cool:

[linklewtt]

my big beef with this new Seas with Nemo and Friends ride is that it is completely different from what the ride originally stood for. the ride originally was a way for you to sit back and look in wonder all around you at the different sea life and just be amazed at this world. but now, the Imagineers tried to mask that world. sure the new ride has great technology and such, but Nemo and his friends are trying to push out the actual seas, the REAL seas and the REAL animals.

the imagineers tried to divert your attention to the projections rather than the life all around you. and that i hate. they could have easily made the attraction into a classic edutainment ride by keeping the story of Nemo is lost and you need to find him. Dory and Marlin would join you on the seacrh for Nemo, but as you go through the ocean, they would point out to you the different life you see. they wouldn't be projected anywhere except in like the first scene of the ride. you would only hear therir voice, like the Ghost Host in HM. it would have been such a better ride, but now it just remains the exploitation of another Pixar franchise.

thank you so much John Lasseter!

[Foolish Mortal]

The Nemo overlay to The Living Seas is old news. While it's another movie-based theme invasion of an attraction, I hardly think Epcot's spirit is dying because of it. I don't think this is like the Pirates movie-additions at all. I think the Nemo characters here are there to help kids learn about the Seas, but I could be wrong.

I kind of agree wit PeoplemoverMatt. The Living Seas was a great attraction: with a movie, a hydrilator ride,sea creatures in giant tanks, a neat ride through the glass tank, and other exhibits. Over the years, a lot was being taken out and it became a hydrilator ride to an aquarium. It lost a lot. Finding Nemo may not be a good overlay for Epcot, but the attraction has more than it has had over recent years. The way I see it, they spruced up the place. And with the nemo characters, more kids will find the attraction interesting again!

[mrhappybomb]

I actually Liked Epcot I loved how all there rides have some type of learning experience including Test Track and Mission: SPACE.