Space Mountain needs a revamp!

[quinteros235]

I am a Californian from San Bernardino. I downloaded a ride video of the Space Mountain at WDW, and...compared to my (Disneyland's) new Space Mountain...it's pretty disappointing. I mean, the ride has no music and I think that's dumb that you can see the queue on the ride. It also looks dull. Heck, when was the last time that thing was refurbished?

So....I have a few ideas to make the ride look like its Anahiem cousin.
-I would put a roof over the queue so that way, the light shining from it won't disturb the riders.
-Add planets and comets to the ride.
-(I have proven this) I would make the blue strobe tunnel darker. Making it darker will make it fell like you're going even faster than before. Don't believe me, take a ride video and turn the brightness down.
-Change the rockets so that they can have a new paint job and stereo system. It can use the same soundtrack like in California's.
-Add a hyperspeed tunnel during the ride, like in Hong Kong's SM!

Anyway, these are a few ideas. I'm not hating on SM or anything, but I think WDW SM is long overdue for a rehab. What do you think?

[HMF]

I am a Californian from San Bernardino. I downloaded a ride video of the Space Mountain at WDW, and...compared to my (Disneyland's) new Space Mountain...it's pretty disappointing. I mean, the ride has no music and I think that's dumb that you can see the queue on the ride. It also looks dull. Heck, when was the last time that thing was refurbished?

So....I have a few ideas to make the ride look like its Anahiem cousin.
-I would put a roof over the queue so that way, the light shining from it won't disturb the riders.
-Add planets and comets to the ride.
-(I have proven this) I would make the blue strobe tunnel darker. Making it darker will make it fell like you're going even faster than before. Don't believe me, take a ride video and turn the brightness down.
-Change the rockets so that they can have a new paint job and stereo system. It can use the same soundtrack like in California's.
-Add a hyperspeed tunnel during the ride, like in Hong Kong's SM!

Anyway, these are a few ideas. I'm not hating on SM or anything, but I think WDW SM is long overdue for a rehab. What do you think?
Yes it does need one. It needs to be compatable with its sister park.:wink:

[PeoplemoverMatt]

An interesting thing to note here is that the blue light tunnel that was new to Disneyland's Space Mtn. was inspired by a similar tunnel found in WDW's Space Mtn. That being said, can you imagine if Magic Kingdom's Space Mtn. was down for multiple years like ours was? It would actually take longer to give their Space Mtn. the same treatment as there is a great deal more track. Also it would be virtually impossible to create the same level of darkness that we enjoy as not only does their queue provide views of the rockets but remember they still have a Peoplemover in there. It's nice idea but would be just about impossible to pull off.

-- PMM :cool:

[quinteros235]

An interesting thing to note here is that the blue light tunnel that was new to Disneyland's Space Mtn. was inspired by a similar tunnel found in WDW's Space Mtn. That being said, can you imagine if Magic Kingdom's Space Mtn. was down for multiple years like ours was? It would actually take longer to give their Space Mtn. the same treatment as there is a great deal more track. Also it would be virtually impossible to create the same level of darkness that we enjoy as not only does their queue provide views of the rockets but remember they still have a Peoplemover in there. It's nice idea but would be just about impossible to pull off.

-- PMM :cool:

Well, I don't think that they need to do anything to the track. The only reason why Disneyland's SM needed to close was because the track was ready to collapse. WDW's doesn't need any track refurb, so I say it would only take about...7 months, maybe?

[HMF]

An interesting thing to note here is that the blue light tunnel that was new to Disneyland's Space Mtn. was inspired by a similar tunnel found in WDW's Space Mtn. That being said, can you imagine if Magic Kingdom's Space Mtn. was down for multiple years like ours was? It would actually take longer to give their Space Mtn. the same treatment as there is a great deal more track. Also it would be virtually impossible to create the same level of darkness that we enjoy as not only does their queue provide views of the rockets but remember they still have a Peoplemover in there. It's nice idea but would be just about impossible to pull off.

-- PMM :cool:
Dosent mean anything. They could add the new effects music etc without redesining the track. and besides how would the TTA interfere with anything? Also WDWs came first. One of the few rides were the original was at WDW first not counting DCA.:old_wink:

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Peoplemover would not allow for the darkness in our Space Mtn. that everyone raves about here for WDW. Yes WDW's came first as Space Mountain, but our Matterhorn came first. So Magic Kingdom's Space is an unoriginal original. :smile:

-- Peoplemover "What?" Matt

[HMF]

Peoplemover would not allow for the darkness in our Space Mtn. that everyone raves about here for WDW. Yes WDW's came first as Space Mountain, but our Matterhorn came first. So Magic Kingdom's Space is an unoriginal original. :smile:

-- Peoplemover "What?" Matt
What do you mean Matterhorn is different than Space Mountain. O K it was the first Disney Rollar Coaster but so what WDWs still came first and i do not understand why the younger sibling gets all the attention from WDI. I really do not car how dark it is in there. At least add the audio. or get rid of TTA like they did with the Peoplemover.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Magic Kingdom's Space Mountain is identical or nearly identical in layout & nature to Disneyland's Matterhorn which came before it. And for the record, they didn't just 'get rid' of the Peoplemover, it was replaced by the disastrous Rocket Rods.

-- PMM :cool:

[HMF]

Magic Kingdom's Space Mountain is identical or nearly identical in layout & nature to Disneyland's Matterhorn which came before it. And for the record, they didn't just 'get rid' of the Peoplemover, it was replaced by the disastrous Rocket Rods.

-- PMM :cool:
What were they and how long did they last?:confused:

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Rocket Rods info found here on VF's Rocket Rods page:
http://www.visionsfantastic.com/main.php?page=rocketrods

-- PMM :cool:

[HMF]

Rocket Rods info found here on VF's Rocket Rods page:
http://www.visionsfantastic.com/main.php?page=rocketrods

-- PMM :cool:
Still I dont see how the enhancement would interfere with TTA.
That Rocket Rods thing looks fun. I cant belive it was that disastorus.

[reillysix]

^ Not fun ... Disneyland did not bank the turns so you had to slow down so much to go around them...

I think we need to get back on topic now...

[Harrison Hightower III]

Here's my reason MK Space Mountain needs a refurb:
1. Its the first Space Mountian so it deserves to be the best
2. Its way to 1970's!!!

[ohtherain]

Space Mountain totally neds a refurbishment. I have been to Walt Disney World 15 times, and Space Mountain seems to be always the same every time!

[k_peek_2000]

1. Its the first Space Mountian so it deserves to be the best
Um okay.... I agree. But disney doesnt. Disneyland is the first park but it doesnt get treated the best. Well It didnt for a while.

[ryguy222]

Well look people WDW'S SM WAS THE FIRST! It was the first attraction. WDW'S opened in 75, and ours opened in 77. So yea it needs one. It doesn't have music but i hope it gets its own and doesn't steal ours. If you don't belive on the WDW's was first look on rcdb.com

[Harrison Hightower III]

I think that MK's SM should get the same kind of treatment as DL's (with getting torn down and everything gets rebuidlt) but different music.

[HMF]

Um okay.... I agree. But disney doesnt. Disneyland is the first park but it doesnt get treated the best. Well It didnt for a while.
Yes but Matt Ouimit pulled DL light years ahead of the WDW Magic Kingdom and you guys get HMH.:wink:

[DisneyParksFan]

I think this has gone back and forth way too much.

This is what I have to say:
The WDW space Mountain needs to be refurbished. I understand that Disneyland's version got a complete makeover for the 50th.
Nothing personal, but I dont want the Disneyland version at the Magic Kingdom. It's not that it isn't good (which that ride is awesome!) but that version wouldn't fit in with the WDW's Tomorrowland. The design and story is complete different.
The two lands have differenet themes. The tomorrowland at WDW is designed to be more like a futureistic city... "The world of tomorrow that never was"

It doesn't really matter what Space Mountain is based on or who deserves bragging rights. What really matters is updating the mountain that's stuck in the 70's.

Having the TTA go through the mountain causes no problems really. That's my favorite part of the ride. Before we go on Space Mountain, we always go on TTA LOL

I vote for a refurbishment!

[HMF]

I think this has gone back and forth way too much.

This is what I have to say:
The WDW space Mountain needs to be refurbished. I understand that Disneyland's version got a complete makeover for the 50th.
Nothing personal, but I dont want the Disneyland version at the Magic Kingdom. It's not that it isn't good (which that ride is awesome!) but that version wouldn't fit in with the WDW's Tomorrowland. The design and story is complete different.
The two lands have differenet themes. The tomorrowland at WDW is designed to be more like a futureistic city... "The world of tomorrow that never was"

It doesn't really matter what Space Mountain is based on or who deserves bragging rights. What really matters is updating the mountain that's stuck in the 70's.

Having the TTA go through the mountain causes no problems really. That's my favorite part of the ride. Before we go on Space Mountain, we always go on TTA LOL

I vote for a refurbishment!
I would love to add the Disneyland audio.

[DisneyParksFan]

I would love to add the Disneyland audio.


I wasn't saying that. The two rides should be seperate because of the different themes.

[HMF]

I wasn't saying that. The two rides should be seperate because of the different themes.
What do you mean by different themes. before the refurb WDWs and DLRS were nearly identical.

[DisneyParksFan]

^^ The two Tomorrowlands (DLR and WDW) have different themes.
I think the inside of WDW's Space Mountain should fit better with the new MK Tomorrowland theme.

[HMF]

^^ The two Tomorrowlands (DLR and WDW) have different themes.
I think the inside of WDW's Space Mountain should fit better with the new MK Tomorrowland theme.
Well at least ours was never painted gold.

[DisneyParksFan]

Well at least ours was never painted gold.

It was a broze color, i'm for the refurb.
It sounds like you dont think I want the WDW Space Mountain refub to happen...

[HMF]

It sounds like you dont think I want the WDW Space Mountain refub to happen...
I never said that. what would you do to it if you were in charge?

[Harrison Hightower III]

I would make it better than DL's!!! Not saying DL is bad but I just want MK's to be better since it was first and it never has gotten a refurb!!! It deserves the whole torn down and rebuildt thing. Oh and mickey2005 I'm right there with you!!!


HHIII

[wdwmickeyfan]

Even Tokyo Disneyland's Space Mountain is going down for a 6 month refurb.

[Harrison Hightower III]

OMG what is going on with MK?????????


HHIII

[wdwmickeyfan]

OMG what is going on with MK?????????


HHIII

I know. It's in the worst shape out of all the Magic Kingdoms right now. While the rest are getting new rides/shows and refurbing their old attractions, MK is just sitting there doing nothing.

[HMF]

I know. It's in the worst shape out of all the Magic Kingdoms right now. While the rest are getting new rides/shows and refurbing their old attractions, MK is just sitting there doing nothing.
Hopefully that will change soon with the new president.:old_wink:

[Cutthroat CGM]

It's not "doing nothing." The Liberty Belle Riverboat is coming back next week from a year-long rebuild, there's four new live entertainment shows, The Laugh Floor Comedy Club opens in January, and I know FOR A FACT that there are plans for refurbs for Jungle Cruise, Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain and Tomorrowland Indy Speedway over the next three-five years. The main problem is pulling together enough money and resources to make some of these things happen, since the yearly budget for WDW has to be spread over four theme parks, 20+ hotels, Downtown Disney, two water parks etc...

(Now I've gotta play devil's advocate here, since I'm no happier about the state of the park than you...)

The truth is, the sheer popularity of the MK works against it. The management dare not keep more than one or two of the signature attractions down for any real length of time, especially in peak months (hence the two-part refit of POTC this year, allowing it to briefly reopen for the Easter/spring break period). And they got DELUGED with complaints from the guests during the times it was closed.

Plus, the vast majority of those guests are not regulars or even semi-regulars to the park. They're people who maybe come to WDW once a decade, or maybe once period. Guests from all over the world, who more than likely have never gone to any of the other Disneylands and thus have nothing to compare WDW to (save for maybe Six Flags or Universal). If they don't notice anything wrong, that's good enough for management.

[HMF]

It's not "doing nothing." The Liberty Belle Riverboat is coming back next week from a year-long rebuild, there's four new live entertainment shows, The Laugh Floor Comedy Club opens in January, and I know FOR A FACT that there are plans for refurbs for Jungle Cruise, Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain and Tomorrowland Indy Speedway over the next three-five years. The main problem is pulling together enough money and resources to make some of these things happen, since the yearly budget for WDW has to be spread over four theme parks, 20+ hotels, Downtown Disney, two water parks etc...

(Now I've gotta play devil's advocate here, since I'm no happier about the state of the park than you...)

The truth is, the sheer popularity of the MK works against it. The management dare not keep more than one or two of the signature attractions down for any real length of time, especially in peak months (hence the two-part refit of POTC this year, allowing it to briefly reopen for the Easter/spring break period). And they got DELUGED with complaints from the guests during the times it was closed.

Plus, the vast majority of those guests are not regulars or even semi-regulars to the park. They're people who maybe come to WDW once a decade, or maybe once period. Guests from all over the world, who more than likely have never gone to any of the other Disneylands and thus have nothing to compare WDW to (save for maybe Six Flags or Universal). If they don't notice anything wrong, that's good enough for management.
What about the people who only come to Disneyland once in their lifetime.:icon_evil

[Cutthroat CGM]

(resigned shrug)

From what I was told, Disneyland relies mainly on repeat/local business and that's why they have to put more effort into it (plus it WAS the first and enjoying its' 50'th birthday, plus it IS smaller, only 2 parks and 2 hotels, hence the money goes a lot farther). Ditto for Tokyo (where Oriental Land Company holds sway and refuses to spare any expense), Paris (which continues to hemorrage money) and Hong Kong (too soon to tell yet).

WDW, by its' very nature as the largest and most "international" of the Disney theme park resorts (hence the most expensive just to run on a day-to-day basis), simply can't go the extra mile to knock the socks off of every single person who visits by offering up repeated feasts of audio-visual thrills when just a snack will suffice most of the time. It could still do it as late as the early 90's when it was just MK, EPCOT, MGM, DD and a dozen hotels. But after AK, the two water parks, a kiddie golf course, DisneyQuest and a few more hotels, they're spread a little thin. If MK can satisfy 90-95% of the guests (and hopefully the other parks/DD/hotels will make it up to the rest), they now consider it a job well done.

[wdwmickeyfan]

This proves that bigger isn't always better.....

[HMF]

This proves that bigger isn't always better.....
You are right about that.

[quinteros235]

Even Tokyo Disneyland's Space Mountain is going down for a 6 month refurb.
This is true. It says so on www.tokyodisneyresort.com. The Japanese people are getting a refurb. Though I'm not sure that they are going to make it new like Anahiem's, if they do, that means that WDW's SM will be left out! That's not fair, since it's the first SM ever, it deserves the refurb.:wink:

[PeoplemoverMatt]

The truth is, the sheer popularity of the MK works against it. The management dare not keep more than one or two of the signature attractions down for any real length of time, especially in peak months (hence the two-part refit of POTC this year, allowing it to briefly reopen for the Easter/spring break period). And they got DELUGED with complaints from the guests during the times it was closed.

You'll find this to some degree in any theme park really. No one likes to go anywhere and find stuff closed. It's bad show no matter where you are. The difference is that Disney actually cares about this stuff. Disneyland also holds this ideal, but in 2004 they had to do what they had to do given the run-down state of the park & the imminent 50th. Trust me, the deluge was pretty stinkin' bad with not a single mountain operating.

Plus, the vast majority of those guests are not regulars or even semi-regulars to the park. They're people who maybe come to WDW once a decade, or maybe once period. Guests from all over the world, who more than likely have never gone to any of the other Disneylands and thus have nothing to compare WDW to (save for maybe Six Flags or Universal). If they don't notice anything wrong, that's good enough for management.
This will change in coming years with more international Disney Resorts being constructed. Those guests will want to come to the USA and see what's here as well, especially with the dollar working in their favor. WDW Management had best be on their toes as no USA park measures up to the TDL standard of excellence. Can't speak for Hong Kong or Paris, but I know if I visited WDW after being used to TDL, I'd be hoppin' mad.

What about the people who only come to Disneyland once in their lifetime.
As previously stated, they are very rare. Disney is correct in thinking there is a great number of locals and repeat guests to Disneyland Resort CA than WDW FL. It mostly has to do with how huge the LA Metro area is compared to the Lake Buena Vista area WDW is in. The mega-metropolises are airplane trips away from WDW, instead of a short trip down an Interstate here. It's a geographical thing rather than one place being better than another.

WDW, by its' very nature as the largest and most "international" of the Disney theme park resorts (hence the most expensive just to run on a day-to-day basis), simply can't go the extra mile to knock the socks off of every single person who visits by offering up repeated feasts of audio-visual thrills when just a snack will suffice most of the time. It could still do it as late as the early 90's when it was just MK, EPCOT, MGM, DD and a dozen hotels. But after AK, the two water parks, a kiddie golf course, DisneyQuest and a few more hotels, they're spread a little thin. If MK can satisfy 90-95% of the guests (and hopefully the other parks/DD/hotels will make it up to the rest), they now consider it a job well done.
Well that's sad that them & their guests would be satisfied with mediocrity, especially for that price. Remember folks, TDL is about 15% cheaper admission than the parks here & they deliver 500% the experience that the USA parks do. If WDW can't find a way out its wet paper bag budget, they need a bigger budget. You're only hurting yourself and your product by choking your own funds off. Disney isn't Six Flags, there's really no reason for that.

-- PMM :cool:

[DisneyParksFan]

You have to remember though, WDW also has the largest of the Disney Theme Park properties (duh). So that means, there's alot of money that has to be spent of the landscaping and the upkeep and the properties roadways.

Also that is completely true about the guest's satisfaction. There's people who visit WDW from all over the world. That means huge crowds are coming in. Sadly, the resort has to think on a large scale, not always worrying about the smallest details. They have to look at the larger picture, decide which way really works best and how to please a large mass of visitors. Some people aren't always going to get what they wanted, but most of the time they will.

When going to WDW, I can tell that the way the place functions is in favor of the larger crowd but the theme down there is also great for the eyes. So as of now, they are managing. Success is still paying off.


-mickey2005

[PeoplemoverMatt]

You have to remember though, WDW also has the largest of the Disney Theme Park properties (duh). So that means, there's alot of money that has to be spent of the landscaping and the upkeep and the properties roadways.

Only a fool, or Six Flags, would give the same budget to WDW as they gave to DLR. Obviously WDW is given a bigger budget. The question is are they given a big enough budget? They should be given whatever budget is needed. No reason to choke your own funds off unless you're just trying to look good in a board room in front of stockholder rep's. If that's your narrow vision, you don't deserve to be in that board room.

-- PMM :cool:

[LoehnWolf]

wow this thread rapidly deteriorated. I think the smartest plan of action would be to spread refurbs out, obviously and maybe based on popularity? Clearly HM, POTC and the 3 "Mountains" are highest on the list of popularity, so those guys should be given higher importance. But then if you spend the money on refubs people will complain that there are no NEW attractions, so either way there is no pleasing everyone. Clearly the original attractions need a great deal of refreshing but people are not so understanding of dwntimes to get them done. Its a no win situation but it is a necessary evil.

[quinteros235]

Hey, i was just on www.wikipedia.org and it said that Disneyland's "old" space mountain rockets glowed-in-the-dark. Is that true? I never rode the old one.

[Cutthroat CGM]

Ours still do. :)

[Ezra]

The reason the side panels of the rockets at DL glowed in the dark is so that the vehicles could be seen from the preview windows in the queue... but there was a problem of too much light spilling into the attraction and spoiling all the effects.

[DisneyParksFan]

Ours still do. :)

Yes, the rockets at WDW still glow. When you're waiting in the station, it's cool to look up and sometimes see a stripe of yellow/green fly by in the distance.

I still wish they would cover up to window in the queue or put some one-way glass thing. The station also needs to be update. Maybe but in some props because it's so large and they're just wasting space with that merry-go-round queue that never gets used.


-mickey2005

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Since no one's able to look into Disneyland's Space Mtn. anymore, there's no reason to have them glow in the dark.

-- PMM :cool:

[Ezra]

Right, it would just be more uncecessary spill light interfering with the effects.

[CostaFreak]

Honestly, all I think the original needs is a roof above the stations queve, a roof above the lift hill, a darker blue strobe light tunnel, and a new re entery tunnel and that's it. By putting in new cars and a soundtrack would do the same thing that happened to Disneyland's old Space Mountain track. The other stuff I mentioned would just make the ride darker, that's all you need for a refurb. AND REPLACING THE TRACK?! I took four years to make Space Mountain (1971-1/15/1975) And demolishing the track and putting in a new one would mean Space Mountain being down for 4 or 5 years. If they are doing a refurbishment to it, let them wait until after aplil or may (I'm goin' to WDW four parks on spring break next year, maybe a little trip to Universal). I've never been to Disneyland (California). I live way farther from that than WDW.

[quinteros235]

Honestly, all I think the original needs is a roof above the stations queve, a roof above the lift hill, a darker blue strobe light tunnel, and a new re entery tunnel and that's it. By putting in new cars and a soundtrack would do the same thing that happened to Disneyland's old Space Mountain track. The other stuff I mentioned would just make the ride darker, that's all you need for a refurb. AND REPLACING THE TRACK?! I took four years to make Space Mountain (1971-1/15/1975) And demolishing the track and putting in a new one would mean Space Mountain being down for 4 or 5 years. If they are doing a refurbishment to it, let them wait until after aplil or may (I'm goin' to WDW four parks on spring break next year, maybe a little trip to Universal). I've never been to Disneyland (California). I live way farther from that than WDW.

Yeah, but it took them 4 years to build the track because they didn't have the technology of today. Besides, isn't the WDW SM track stronger than DL's?

[CostaFreak]

I thought WDW's was an Arrow coaster?

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Yeah, but it took them 4 years to build the track because they didn't have the technology of today. Besides, isn't the WDW SM track stronger than DL's?


Today's technology didn't really speed things up much. It took from about May '02 - July '05 to complete our Space Mtn's refurb, and that was with a surprise early start & rushed custruction schedule. Add to the fact they did not have to construct the roof from scratch, nor dig any of the original holes, it actually took the same if not a proportionally-longer time now than then.

'Strength' has much to do with age. Since Disneyland's track was installed about 16 months ago, it's at least got the newest track of all the Space Mtn.'s.

I thought WDW's was an Arrow coaster?
Disneyland's Space Mountain was built by AMEC Dynamic Structures. Magic Kingdom's Space Mountain was built by WED. The only ones listed as Vekomas are Hong Kong and Paris' Space Mountains. Source: www.rcdb.com

-- PMM :cool:

[HMF]

I've never been to Disneyland (California). I live way farther from that than WDW.
You dont know what you are missing.:wink: Space Mountain in Disneyland is amzing and we should have it here as well.

[Harrison Hightower III]

All of the space mountain's are Vekomas. So none of them are stronger than the other.

-SPΛCE
Vekoma was around in the 70's???


HHIII

[quinteros235]

You dont know what you are missing.:wink: Space Mountain in Disneyland is amzing and we should have it here as well.
Yeah, but Hong Kong's SM has more and cooler special effects. Still, Disneyland's SM doesn't disappoint.:biggrin:

[Disney_Guy]

WDW Space Mountain should get a refurb, but right now I'm glad I get to go to Disneyland all the time and ride that awsome ride. If they refurb WDW version, it will take a few years like ours did for it to be finished. Which would probably disappoint some fans..

I've never been on the WDW Space Mountain, other than watching a few recreated animated versions of it, but does anyone actually have any real on-ride footage they'd like to post?:smile: (Sorry if someone already has)

[HMF]

Good news from Al Lutz. WDW management took a tour of Disneyland and were shocked by how well maintained it was. Now WDW is starting to realize this and many attractions in disrepair will be getting refurbs very soon.
Thats right Space Mountain will be updated. Pirates will be getting better speakers and Mansion will be getting Constance.:smile:

[PeoplemoverMatt]

If they were shocked, then it's worst than I thought. Just about everything has had a refurb if not multiple refurbs since 2004. Meanwhile WDW has been stuck in the doldrums of disrepair Disneyland knew before Matt Ouimet arrived. So it doesn't really take a rocket scientist to understand why Disneyland would look better mantained than WDW parks.

-- PMM :cool:

[HMF]

No where in Al Lutz's article did it say they're revamping anything in Florida. It just said that they're noticeable now. But then again, who to believe, Disney, or Al Lutz... ROFL.

-SPΛCE "Disney > Al Lutz anyday!"
I am going to go with Al Lutz. Most of his rumors came true. And Disney never tells you anything.;)

[DisneyParksFan]

Key word my friend is most and his. Good chance that this is HIS rumor, and that it may possibly NOT come true at all. He was wrong about RockIt Mountain, and he shall probably be wrong again on this. This is way too ahead in the future.

-SPΛCE

That is completely true

[HMF]

Key word my friend is most and his. Good chance that this is HIS rumor, and that it may possibly NOT come true at all. He was wrong about RockIt Mountain, and he shall probably be wrong again on this. This is way too ahead in the future.

-SPΛCE
What about the Haunted Mansion Attic changes?;)

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Guys, this doesn't need to be a Lutz is good/bad thread. Let's just put what he said in the article out there so people can make their own conclusions. I highly recommend all interested readers to read closely so as to have the best discussion possible. :smile:

In late August a small group of senior managers from Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom park arrived to tour Disneyland and its E-Ticket attractions which have seen a renaissance in technology and TLC in the last few years. While Southern Californians have grown accustomed to constant changes and upgrades to all sorts of Disneyland attractions, from small dark rides like Peter Pan's Flight to mega-attractions like Haunted Mansion or Pirates of the Caribbean, that level of investment hasn't materialized for the Magic Kingdom park out in Florida. In Florida most of the attractions have been allowed to stagnate with the same 1970's technology they've always had while only receiving the occasional but very short refurbishment to dust off the circa 1975 attractions. Occasionally a new attraction would open in the Magic Kingdom, but the rides that remained never got much TLC or investment in new technology. But now it seems that Ouimet's push in the last few years to plus and upgrade all manner of Disneyland attractions has finally caught the attention of the Magic Kingdom management out in Florida.

The group of touring Florida suits had a specific itinerary, visiting Disneyland's Jungle Cruise, Space Mountain, Haunted Mansion, Buzz Lightyear and Pirates of the Caribbean, which just happen to all be attractions that are noticeably better in California. And in the case of the older E-Tickets, they are all rides that have received constant upgrades and heavy reinvestment in the last five years at Disneyland while the Florida versions creak along with 30 year old technology and effects that no longer impress today's audience.

For instance, when the Florida group rode Pirates of the Caribbean, their mouths were wide open through almost the entire ride. The Floridians were amazed not because Disneyland is blessed with an additional 8 minutes of ride time with many show scenes missing from Florida, as they were already well aware of the physical difference between the two pirate rides. The Floridians were so impressed because Disneyland received a much more thorough makeover this last winter when both rides were closed for their Johnny Depp installations. In Florida, the rehab was cut into two separate sections to allow the ride to open for the busy Easter Vacation period. (With fewer attractions overall in the Magic Kingdom compared to Disneyland, the operations folks insisted they get the ride capacity back for Easter much to the annoyance of the Imagineers).

But at Disneyland during the Pirates rehab they replaced every single speaker in the entire ride, rewired all of the electrical to support new lighting and digital data infrastructure, and gave every single animatronic a tune-up. Plus there was much repainting, reworking existing show scenes, and lots of extra props and eye candy brought directly from the movie production. But in the Florida version of Pirates during this last rehab they purposely took a much more limited approach to reworking the attraction and its infrastructure.

Take Disneyland's dazzling new audio system for instance that replaced every single speaker in the facility; but in Florida they only installed new speakers where a new Johnny Depp figure appeared, or where new dialogue or sound effects were added. There are still long sections of the Florida ride that are using old 1970's-era speakers and lighting technology. The end result in Florida is a muddled mix of 1973 speakers broadcasting next to 2006 speakers, and lighting and digital effects that clearly got the short end of the stick compared to the lush Disneyland treatment.

Needless to say the small group of Florida managers were blown away, and exited Disneyland's 16 minute long version of Pirates convinced they had made a big mistake by not budgeting as much money as Anaheim had. While the tough local crowd here in Southern California can easily critique anything new added to Disneyland, yours truly included, the news of this Florida contingent visiting Disneyland to see what they've been missing is a good reminder that our local executives have been doing many things right in the last few years. And when it comes to overall showmanship and reinvestment in older attractions, Disneyland has clearly been doing a better job compared to its Magic Kingdom cousin out in Florida.

While Pirates of the Caribbean was only one stop on the tour, it was one of the best examples of the differences between Anaheim and Orlando. Lucky for the Floridians they will have a second chance at getting a Pirates rehab right when both attractions close again in 2007 to get ready for the third installment in the wildly successful movie franchise. The third movie premiere has already been slotted for Disneyland around the middle of May, and this time the refurbishment will add Kiera Knightly and Orlando Bloom animatronic figures (despite what some in Imagineering are saying otherwise).

The Disneyland project managers and Imagineers have been trying to figure out the schedule, and it looks now like the Disneyland attraction should be closed for three and a half months from roughly early February to around May 19th. The Floridians had been thinking of only a six or seven week rehab from just after Easter until the third installment of the movie opens May 25th. But the recent visit to Disneyland has them rethinking those plans, and they may try to go for the more ambitious Disneyland-style full rehab of their 34 year old attraction.

After those senior managers went back to Florida with their tails between their legs determined to beef up their refurbishment budgets...

So there ya have it. Sounds like the WDW folks sure got a wake-up call, which is a very very good thing for them. Maintenance of any sort is a good thing for any park, and WDW could sure use all it can get.

-- PMM :cool:

[CommanderLock]

Refurb. Now. If anything, change the trains, music, everything.
Being a coaster fanatic, I would love more speed.
Well...maybe not now...

[LoehnWolf]

Here is hoping that it is ENOUGH of a wake up call. If I have learned anything about management and execs is that what they SHOULD do and what they ACTUALLY do are never from the same page. Money spent on refurbs is money out of their pockets and we know hot they hate that.

[ElecTronic]

ugh... like i have said before WDW's space mountain is FINE the way it is, it doesnt need music, it doesnt need special effects. Can we just leave some things alone for once?

[HMF]

ugh... like i have said before WDW's space mountain is FINE the way it is, it doesnt need music, it doesnt need special effects. Can we just leave some things alone for once?
Have you been on the Disneyland version?;)

[ElecTronic]

Have you been on the Disneyland version?;)
yes i have, 6 times actually.(august 1st,2nd 2006).

[HMF]

yes i have, 6 times actually.(august 1st,2nd 2006).
And you dont think it would be cool if we had it in WDW?;)

[uscfan7690]

HMF, its not all about making things the same at every park... I'm not saying I'm against a WDW SM refurb, but it doesn't need to be like Disneyland. As mentioned earlier in the thread, the theming and background behind the rides are COMPLETELY different. And for the record, I like Al Lutz about as much as I like Vekoma SLCs... and I see no way that DL's SM is by Vekoma, its not nearly bone-wrenching enough.

[linklewtt]

true, WDW's SM doesn't need to be like Disneyland's at all. in fact, that's the worst thing that could happen. WDW's SM is the original, and i think it should try to stay as true to that as possible. however, a track refurb to make things go smoother and maybe a new color scheme or whatever would be nice.

the importance should be placed on enhancement, not replacement.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

The funny part about this is, the enhancements made to Disneyland's Space Mtn.'s lift hill were meant to make it more like WDW's Space Mtn. Those blue flashy lights are almost a direct clone of a WDW Space Mtn. effect.

-- The Chief :cool:

[HMF]

[QUOTE=linklewtt]true, WDW's SM doesn't need to be like Disneyland's at all. in fact, that's the worst thing that could happen.QUOTE]
If the Walt Disney World version is the original then WDW should have gotten the refurb and not DLR.;)

[uscfan7690]

[QUOTE=linklewtt]true, WDW's SM doesn't need to be like Disneyland's at all. in fact, that's the worst thing that could happen.[QUOTE]
If the Walt Disney World version is the original then WDW should have gotten the refurb and not DLR.;)

WDW's wasn't about to implode.

And I completely agree with linklewtt's 'enhancement' statement... Each ride deserves individualized enhancements. You can't just copy a refurb from one ride to the next simply because they share the same name. The track layout is radically different.

Speaking of the devil, how about a theme refurb at WDW SM that somehow emphasizes the racing/dueling nature of the ride? I know that on the Matterhorn Bobsleds a lot of the fun is high-fiving the people in trains next to you (when you get a good dispatch). I'm not sure how you would do something like that at WDW without violating the dark nature of SM, but it seems like a fun thing to think about =)

[quinteros235]

After these reading posts, I realized that...you're right. WDW's is the first SM ever, so we should keep the orginiality. They could keep the paint fresh. Anyway, I've seen the error of my ways.

[DisneyParksFan]

I remember reading somewhere that TDL's SM is getting refurbished sometime soon.

WDW's SM should get a refurbishment but...that doesn't mean we need to go in there and completely destory the tracks and tear apart the entire ride. I think it means some things need to be updated because last time ive been on this Space Mountain, it seems to be drifting more into the past each day. Yes, a fresh coat of paint here and there and some new signs in the queue. Maybe a new ride safety video (do they even have one?) and i think they could put all that empty space in the station to better use.

-mickey2005

[CostaFreak]

I admit it. Space Mountain needs a refurb. Keep the originality, but, here's my version of what the refurb should be like.

Track layouts are basicly the same, exept the lift would be taller and there would be more drops.


MOCK RIDE THROUGH:

The station where you board your rocket is COMPLETLY different from the original one. It resembles DLR's station since the roof looks just like it, blue, but with no Spaceship above (that's still on the lift hill). Instead is a projection of the moon turning with stars as if it was a window (this is just a projection, it won't interfear with the ride). The vehicles are still single file, but the color sceme is the same as DLR's.

You pull down your lap bar, head to the next checking area, and your dispached as the old Dick Dale soundtrack from DLR turns on. You slowly make a U-turn with the music running slow (DLR's old 1st lift music). Then you halt and you see a window to the universe around you with shooting stars flying, passing by (DLR's old blue room music) and down you go, into the new, darker blue stobe light tunnel (DLR's old 2nd lift music) U-turn, and up the lift (DLR's old sattlite turn music)

The lift no longer uses the chain system. It uses an advanced L.I.M. system for the lift. The lift now has a roof, projecting a turning moon just like the station, and the roof sides are still red, but with a better glow. A new spaceship is there, resembling the current one at DLR, and new astronauts under it. This time they're AA's. A countdown screen in between the tracks starts to countdown 5,4,3,2,1 (DLR's old 3rd lift music).

A voice says "We have ignition" and you launch up the remaining 25 ft. of the lift hill (that's why the L.I.M. system is there). The surf guitar music comes on, and you speed through the remainder of the track. You notice that compared to the old version, the ride is unusually smooth, darker. After the big 35 ft. drop, the ride reaches it's top speed of 33mph, due to the additional 10 ft. of the lift hill and smoothness.

The soundtrack ending mixes perfectly with the ride ending, into the helix and finishes out in the new re entery tunnel. The tunnel is the same shape as Tokyo's re entery tunnel, but changed as if it was with windows looking out at blue stars flying past your train. It would use the same sound affect DLR uses now for the re entery tunnel. The ride ends with a turn into the new exit station, with the soundtrack ending with the peaceful re entery music. There is now an area where you can buy on-ride photos.


I had to get that off my chest.


Deep breath......goosefruaba.

[uscfan7690]

I admit it. Space Mountain needs a refurb. Keep the originality, but, here's my version of what the refurb should be like.

Track layouts are basicly the same, exept the lift would be taller and there would be more drops.


MOCK RIDE THROUGH:

The station where you board your rocket is COMPLETLY different from the original one. It resembles DLR's station since the roof looks just like it, blue, but with no Spaceship above (that's still on the lift hill). Instead is a projection of the moon turning with stars as if it was a window (this is just a projection, it won't interfear with the ride). The vehicles are still single file, but the color sceme is the same as DLR's.

You pull down your lap bar, head to the next checking area, and your dispached as the old Dick Dale soundtrack from DLR turns on. You slowly make a U-turn with the music running slow (DLR's old 1st lift music). Then you halt and you see a window to the universe around you with shooting stars flying, passing by (DLR's old blue room music) and down you go, into the new, darker blue stobe light tunnel (DLR's old 2nd lift music) U-turn, and up the lift (DLR's old sattlite turn music)

The lift no longer uses the chain system. It uses an advanced L.I.M. system for the lift. The lift now has a roof, projecting a turning moon just like the station, and the roof sides are still red, but with a better glow. A new spaceship is there, resembling the current one at DLR, and new astronauts under it. This time they're AA's. A countdown screen in between the tracks starts to countdown 5,4,3,2,1 (DLR's old 3rd lift music).

A voice says "We have ignition" and you launch up the remaining 25 ft. of the lift hill (that's why the L.I.M. system is there). The surf guitar music comes on, and you speed through the remainder of the track. You notice that compared to the old version, the ride is unusually smooth, darker. After the big 35 ft. drop, the ride reaches it's top speed of 33mph, due to the additional 10 ft. of the lift hill and smoothness.

The soundtrack ending mixes perfectly with the ride ending, into the helix and finishes out in the new re entery tunnel. The tunnel is the same shape as Tokyo's re entery tunnel, but changed as if it was with windows looking out at blue stars flying past your train. It would use the same sound affect DLR uses now for the re entery tunnel. The ride ends with a turn to the station, with the soundtrack doing the peaceful re entery music.

I had to get that off my chest.


Deep breath......goosefruaba.

Dude, that's not a refurb, that's an OVERHAUL. It would cost as much as an entirely new E-ticket, and that's money that WDW management just doesn't have to spend on SM.

[DisneyParksFan]

I admit it. Space Mountain needs a refurb. Keep the originality, but, here's my version of what the refurb should be like.

Track layouts are basicly the same, exept the lift would be taller and there would be more drops.


MOCK RIDE THROUGH:

The station where you board your rocket is COMPLETLY different from the original one. It resembles DLR's station since the roof looks just like it, blue, but with no Spaceship above (that's still on the lift hill). Instead is a projection of the moon turning with stars as if it was a window (this is just a projection, it won't interfear with the ride). The vehicles are still single file, but the color sceme is the same as DLR's.

You pull down your lap bar, head to the next checking area, and your dispached as the old Dick Dale soundtrack from DLR turns on. You slowly make a U-turn with the music running slow (DLR's old 1st lift music). Then you halt and you see a window to the universe around you with shooting stars flying, passing by (DLR's old blue room music) and down you go, into the new, darker blue stobe light tunnel (DLR's old 2nd lift music) U-turn, and up the lift (DLR's old sattlite turn music)

The lift no longer uses the chain system. It uses an advanced L.I.M. system for the lift. The lift now has a roof, projecting a turning moon just like the station, and the roof sides are still red, but with a better glow. A new spaceship is there, resembling the current one at DLR, and new astronauts under it. This time they're AA's. A countdown screen in between the tracks start to countdown 5,4,3,2,1 (DLR's old 3rd lift music).

A voice says "We have ignition" and you launch up the remaining 25 ft. of the lift hill (that's why the L.I.M. system is there). The surf guitar music comes on, and you speed through the remainder of the track. You notice that compared to the old version, the ride is unusually smooth, darker. After the big 35 ft. drop, the ride reaches it's top speed of 33mph, due to the additional 10 ft. of the lift hill and smoothness.

The soundtrack ending mixes perfectly with the ride ending, into the helix and finishes out in the new re entery tunnel. The tunnel is the same shape as Tokyo's re entery tunnel, but changed as if it was with windows looking out at blue stars flying past your train. It would use the same sound affect DLR uses now for the re entery tunnel. The ride ends with a turn to the station, with the soundtrack doing the peaceful re entery music.

I had to get that off my chest.


Deep breath......goosefruaba.


I'm confused about how this new station would look since there are two ride tracks. Would the lift hill be completely changed since it's shared by the two tracks and the TTA. There actually is a countdown until the top of the lift. It's pretty wierd though and its not really noticed. It's countdown is located on the side of the track and they are light up boxes every here and there.
And for the ending...there already is a "re-entry" tunnel but honestly i dont like it. But what i'm confused about it is that i'm not sure exactly where it would be since the track makes a U-turn back into the station.

I like the new countdown thing and a new station. But I'm not too sure about the designing it after DLR's version too much.

Did you have any ideas about the queue and exit w/ the moving walkway?

[quinteros235]

I admit it. Space Mountain needs a refurb. Keep the originality, but, here's my version of what the refurb should be like.

Track layouts are basicly the same, exept the lift would be taller and there would be more drops.


MOCK RIDE THROUGH:

The station where you board your rocket is COMPLETLY different from the original one. It resembles DLR's station since the roof looks just like it, blue, but with no Spaceship above (that's still on the lift hill). Instead is a projection of the moon turning with stars as if it was a window (this is just a projection, it won't interfear with the ride). The vehicles are still single file, but the color sceme is the same as DLR's.

You pull down your lap bar, head to the next checking area, and your dispached as the old Dick Dale soundtrack from DLR turns on. You slowly make a U-turn with the music running slow (DLR's old 1st lift music). Then you halt and you see a window to the universe around you with shooting stars flying, passing by (DLR's old blue room music) and down you go, into the new, darker blue stobe light tunnel (DLR's old 2nd lift music) U-turn, and up the lift (DLR's old sattlite turn music)

The lift no longer uses the chain system. It uses an advanced L.I.M. system for the lift. The lift now has a roof, projecting a turning moon just like the station, and the roof sides are still red, but with a better glow. A new spaceship is there, resembling the current one at DLR, and new astronauts under it. This time they're AA's. A countdown screen in between the tracks starts to countdown 5,4,3,2,1 (DLR's old 3rd lift music).

A voice says "We have ignition" and you launch up the remaining 25 ft. of the lift hill (that's why the L.I.M. system is there). The surf guitar music comes on, and you speed through the remainder of the track. You notice that compared to the old version, the ride is unusually smooth, darker. After the big 35 ft. drop, the ride reaches it's top speed of 33mph, due to the additional 10 ft. of the lift hill and smoothness.

The soundtrack ending mixes perfectly with the ride ending, into the helix and finishes out in the new re entery tunnel. The tunnel is the same shape as Tokyo's re entery tunnel, but changed as if it was with windows looking out at blue stars flying past your train. It would use the same sound affect DLR uses now for the re entery tunnel. The ride ends with a turn into the new exit station, with the soundtrack ending with the peaceful re entery music. There is now an area where you can buy on-ride photos.


I had to get that off my chest.


Deep breath......goosefruaba.

Wow...you acutally typed that. That was pretty creative, but I don't think WDW has enough money to do all of that. I think all they need to do is to put a roof over the lift hill and the station, add some air gates, make the star effects more like DLP's SM.

[bhakesle]

They haven't changed WDW SM (except for newer cars) since I started going there in 1980. If you compare it to a newer coaster like Rock n' Roller Coaster at MGM, it's very outdated. In my opinion, they need to close it, rip all of the track out, and re-install a new computer designed track that doesn't beat you up so much, and update the soundtrack, effects, etc... It currently has two tracks that are mirror images of each other. They should just go to one longer track. I can wait 5-7 years for that.

[DisneyParksFan]

They haven't changed WDW SM (except for newer cars) since I started going there in 1980. If you compare it to a newer coaster like Rock n' Roller Coaster at MGM, it's very outdated. In my opinion, they need to close it, rip all of the track out, and re-install a new computer designed track that doesn't beat you up so much, and update the soundtrack, effects, etc... It currently has two tracks that are mirror images of each other. They should just go to one longer track. I can wait 5-7 years for that.

You can wait, but the park and most of it's guests cannot. Space Mountain is one of the three main thrills they have at The Magic Kingdom. If they close it for a few years, they would be closing a major thrill which the park needs. It's not a question of unpopularity and why people aren't going. On a normal day, the line backs up near the entrance for the Astro Orbiter. The ride just needs to be updated, that is the way I am seeing it. There is really no need to destroy the entire current track design. Plus I'm sure a budget approved for a refurbishment would not be large enough for such a project. And if they were to go through with a small budget, corners would most likely be cut and original plans would most likely be left out or "saved" for a little phase.
Well of course it is outdated compared to Rock 'n' Roller Coaster over at Disney-MGM Studios. Technology has changed over the years and the two attractions have different storylines, which call for different effects and I'm sure both attractions do not have the same target range in age. Space Mountain opened in 1975 and Rock 'n' Roller Coaster opened in 1999.

-mickey2005

[CostaFreak]

I'm confused about how this new station would look since there are two ride tracks. Would the lift hill be completely changed since it's shared by the two tracks and the TTA. There actually is a countdown until the top of the lift. It's pretty wierd though and its not really noticed. It's countdown is located on the side of the track and they are light up boxes every here and there.
And for the ending...there already is a "re-entry" tunnel but honestly i dont like it. But what i'm confused about it is that i'm not sure exactly where it would be since the track makes a U-turn back into the station.

I like the new countdown thing and a new station. But I'm not too sure about the designing it after DLR's version too much.

Did you have any ideas about the queue and exit w/ the moving walkway?


The only other way I could explain it is by making it on RCT3 or No Limits. And about TTA, it would be in the same place, exept after the lift area it would be enclosed by one way glass.

[ElecTronic]

I have one last thing to say about this. For those of you who say we're not running a mueseum, I know that attractions become outdated and etc. But sometimes thats the part we enjoy, Disney was never supposed to be about thrill rides, Walt didnt even want thrill rides in Disneyland because he wanted a place where a family could have fun together. And so we're not running a mueseum, We're not running a Thrill Park either! WDW's Space Mountain is classic, I love walking in the first room hearing Promising Tomorrows, I love walking in the dark tunnels seeing the neat effects in the windows, I love watching the glowing cars go round from the queue and from TTA. And no I dont think it would be cool to have DLR's SM in WDW. Thats my opinion, Have a Magical day.

[CostaFreak]

I have one last thing to say about this. For those of you who say we're not running a mueseum, I know that attractions become outdated and etc. But sometimes thats the part we enjoy, Disney was never supposed to be about thrill rides, Walt didnt even want thrill rides in Disneyland because he wanted a place where a family could have fun together. And so we're not running a mueseum, We're not running a Thrill Park either! WDW's Space Mountain is classic, I love walking in the first room hearing Promising Tomorrows, I love walking in the dark tunnels seeing the neat effects in the windows, I love watching the glowing cars go round from the queue and from TTA. And no I dont think it would be cool to have DLR's SM in WDW. Thats my opinion, Have a Magical day.

Exactly. It is a park for the family to go to. But some members of the family, if not most, will want to ride a thrill ride somewhere within the day. I'm not saying to make it Kingda Ka or anything. I'm just saying let them update the ride, not by making it faster, but at least add some smoothness, darkness, and new special affects. When Space Mountain first opened in 1975, people thought that it was the best coaster ever made, not by speed, but it was the first coaster to be in darkness.

Now it's the most outdated version of SM. I'm not saying turn it into DLR's version (Tomorrowland has a different storyline). Just take a few things from them. If anything, DLR stole almost everything from WDW when they first built it exept the second lift. Even the station was some what stolen (The space ship was a copy of the one on WDW's lift hill). WDW DESERVES to steal some new elements and the old sountrack from DLR.

[ElecTronic]

Exactly. It is a park for the family to go to. But some members of the family, if not most, will want to ride a thrill ride somewhere within the day. I'm not saying to make it Kingda Ka or anything. I'm just saying let them update the ride, not by making it faster, but at least add some smoothness, darkness, and new special affects. When Space Mountain first opened in 1975, people thought that it was the best coaster ever made, not by speed, but it was the first coaster to be in darkness.

Now it's the most outdated version of SM. I'm not saying turn it into DLR's version (Tomorrowland has a different storyline). Just take a few things from them. If anything, DLR stole almost everything from WDW when they first built it exept the second lift. Even the station was some what stolen (The space ship was a copy of the one on WDW's lift hill). WDW DESERVES to steal some new elements and the old sountrack from DLR.
Your still not getting my point...

[DisneyParksFan]

I have one last thing to say about this. For those of you who say we're not running a mueseum, I know that attractions become outdated and etc. But sometimes thats the part we enjoy, Disney was never supposed to be about thrill rides, Walt didnt even want thrill rides in Disneyland because he wanted a place where a family could have fun together. And so we're not running a mueseum, We're not running a Thrill Park either! WDW's Space Mountain is classic, I love walking in the first room hearing Promising Tomorrows, I love walking in the dark tunnels seeing the neat effects in the windows, I love watching the glowing cars go round from the queue and from TTA. And no I dont think it would be cool to have DLR's SM in WDW. Thats my opinion, Have a Magical day.

I understand what you're saying. But the world is constantly changing. The parks can not continue to keep the same designs and hope that they would last forever. As people change and continue to grow, different generations expect different things. This new generation seems to more be based on thrills and quickness. Faster really is better. So in these cases, attractions should change a bit over the decadesto either enchance them and re-think some concepts that would make the overall effect more enjoyable for this new socities beliefs and ways of life.
Space Mountain could be classified as one of those attractions. And I am not saying it is. SM could be updated to enhance the overall experience so that it could appeal with newer generations of people. SM does not need to be torn apart and started over again. It needs a new fresh coat
of paint, include some new techonolgies into the attraction, and provide it with a better theme. I think that last thing we really want is an attraction sitting in the dark (yes, the inside is dark, but that is not what I mean) and collecting dust while it becomes one of those overlooked attractions before it is almost too late to help. Space Mountain in WDW is an awesome attraction, I would hate to see it destroyed by some cheap refurb or to see it fall deeper into the past. Afterall, Space Mountain is in Tomorrowland ;)

[ElecTronic]

...oi...

[ElecTronic]

You know people you already have a great Space Mountain at DL why dont enjoy that and leave WDW's alone. Why does every thing have to big, Fast and cheap, people are enjoying WDW's SM just the way it is. Maybe a little update but nothing major I like the music it has in the queue i like the fact there is no annoying guy on a tv screen saying the same crap every 2 minutes. WDW's is dark and mysterious on the inside while DL's queue feels too bright that it doesnt feel like Space Mountain to me. WDW's is fine the way it is. Thanks again and Have another Magical Day.

[HMF]

You know people you already have a great Space Mountain at DL why dont enjoy that and leave WDW's alone. Why does every thing have to big, Fast and cheap, people are enjoying WDW's SM just the way it is. Maybe a little update but nothing major I like the music it has in the queue i like the fact there is no annoying guy on a tv screen saying the same crap every 2 minutes. WDW's is dark and mysterious on the inside while DL's queue feels too bright that it doesnt feel like Space Mountain to me. WDW's is fine the way it is. Thanks again and Have another Magical Day.
I agree that the Queue at WDW is much better than Disneylands. But the actual ride really is better at DLR. Like you said most people are enjoying the WDW Space Mountain. But how many of them have ridden the Disneyland one.The DLR one is definitely not cheap.

[ElecTronic]

But who cares about the DLR's SM when your at WDW answer nobody. I actually had more fun riding WDW's SM than DLR's SM. and you ppl know that SM doesnt go any faster than 24 miles per hour right?

[HMF]

But who cares about the DLR's SM when your at WDW answer nobody. I actually had more fun riding WDW's SM than DLR's SM. and you ppl know that SM doesnt go any faster than 24 miles per hour right?
You just proved my point. Most people visiting WDW do not know that Space Mountain in DLR had a great refurb. If Disney put it in WDW people would love it.

[ElecTronic]

I DID NOT PROVE YOUR POINT and NO not everyone would love it!!!!!!
If they did what they did to DLR's SM to WDW's SM it would put it out of theme with the rest of the area. and i said CARE not KNOW. and DLR's SM got its refurb not bc it was outdated it got bc it was collaspsing now why dont you just stay at DL and enjoy they're SM and quit complaining about WDW's SM! Im so sick of ppl wanting to change something into other stuff that isnt worth it. WDW has already lost several great attractions World of Motion, Horizons, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, Journy Into Imagination (the original), Alien Encounter, and we almost lost Spaceship Earth. and to what cheap thrill rides (except Test Track) 3 min long pooh, a piece of nonsense starring Eric Idle, and cheap refurbs! I am sorry to get mad but WDW's has lost enough great attractions and I do Not think it would be so great if the put DLR's SM in WDW Thank You Very Much.

[HMF]

I DID NOT PROVE YOUR POINT and NO not everyone would love it!!!!!!
If they did what they did to DLR's SM to WDW's SM it would put it out of theme with the rest of the area. and i said CARE not KNOW. and DLR's SM got its refurb not bc it was outdated it got bc it was collaspsing now why dont you just stay at DL and enjoy they're SM and quit complaining about WDW's SM! .
The reason I cant just enjoy Disneylands is because I live MUCH closer to WDW than DLR and I enjoyed the DLR version and i think they should bring it to WDW. And why dosent does The DLR version of Space Mountain fit in thematicaly with WDWs Tommorowland? No offence.

[ElecTronic]

Because DLR's is more about a somewhat actual future, while WDW's is about the visionaries (Juels Verne and H. G. Wells) view of the future. a 1800's view of the future not a current view of the future.

[HMF]

Because DLR's is more about a somewhat actual future, while WDW's is about the visionaries (Juels Verne and H. G. Wells) view of the future. a 1800's view of the future not a current view of the future.
Actually its the other way around. WDW has a more realistic ( But still fictionalised) vision of the future. Disneyland on the other hand is more Science Fictionlike.

[ElecTronic]

um no...

[CostaFreak]

Some news for you ElecTronic, as I said before we deserve to steal some things from DLR. Old soundtrack, more darkness, and some of their effects, we deserve to steal. I'm still voting for the single row seating and the double track, but come on. Every other Magic Kingdom has given their SMs refurbs (exept for Hong Kong since their Magic Kingdom is new), but the WDW version is the only one stuck in the 70's. That is actually making WDW look bad. Even DLP's version has had a refurb with new effects and that SM is only about 11 years old.

One more FYI flying at you:

The max. speed for WDW's SM is 28mph.
The max. for DLR's, HKDL's, and TDL's SM is 32mph.
The max. for DLP's SM is 43mph.

[DisneyParksFan]

I feel that this discussion can not go on for much longer. Most points have already been made and many have been repeated quite a few times. Some remarks were senseless and some were not needed to be made.

I think...
Disneyland's Tomorrowland is based on more of a science-led tomorrow
Magic Kingdom's Tomorrowland is based on a retro-50's Buck Roger's future, that never will be. A fantasied tomorrow
Disneyland Paris Discoveryland is based on discoveries and theming based on stories by such authors as Jules Verne and H.G. Wells
Hong Kong Disneyland's Tomorrowland has more of a space-discovery theme/feel
I am not too sure about TDL's Tomorrowland

[ElecTronic]

And like i said before go back to disneyland go ride their coasters and leave WDW alone bc i dont even care what you have to say about it anymore cause all you seem to care about is faster bigger crap. so im done go disrespect someone else for stating their opinion cause im done with this thread. Have Another Magical Without me, Thank You Very Much:mad:

[Ezra]

This thread is getting way too confrontational. Intentionally posting things that will get a rise out of people and potentially cause others to break guidelines is unacceptable. Some of the behavior in this thread comes pretty close to crossing that line. You are all free to state your own opinions without bullying other members about theirs.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

In addition to what Ezra said, it is also unnecessary for members to merely echo the words of Staff. This a dangerous thing because it can put words in our mouth and/or twist their meaning into something completely different than what the words really said. When a staff member gives a warning such as Ezra's, that's all that needs to be said.

We now return you to your reguarly scheduled WDW SM revamp discussion.

-- PMM :cool:

[DisneyParksFan]

I was thinking...

Since the line for Space Mountain usually backs up near the entrance to the queue for Astro Orbiter, what if they were to design an outside queue for SM in the space located between the SM entrance and the old Skyway Station? Maybe that could help with keeping the traffic in that area flowing a little better.
This new queuing area could be a typical line but covered with a canopy type thing to block the rain and sun.

Any ideas or comments on if you think this will work out or not would be nice :)

-mickey2005

[Harrison Hightower III]

NOW I AM MAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tokyo's SM is getting a rehad !!!!! Its all going down in 07 but still!!!:mad::mad:mad:


HH"Mk's Sm should have been done by now!!!"III

[HMF]

NOW I AM MAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tokyo's SM is getting a rehad !!!!! Its all going down in 07 but still!!!:mad::mad:mad:


HH"Mk's Sm should have been done by now!!!"III
Dont worry. I hear theres a WDW Space Mountain refurb in the pipeline.;)

[ElecTronic]

I know I said I was done with this thread but please read this one as if its my first post. "WDW's Space Mountain needs a revamp!" Well I dont think so, when i go WDW's Space Mountain I love it, there is so much movement inside from the vehicles whizzing by to the TTA riding around, I like the fact there are two tracks, I like the fact the is 1 person per row, I also like the fact there is no music, and when i get off WDW's Space Mountain I hear People loving it bc it was fun, Space Mountain is a classic, a classic that I dont think should change, maybe an update But Nothing Major. WDW was/is made different than DLR ON PURPOSE (I have the Imagineering guides and many souces so dont tell me i am wrong ty). They made it different bc they never repeat them selves. "Faster is always better" I dont think that is right all, when they knocked down Horizons and built Mission: SPACE, sure its faster but is it anything in comparison to Horizons, Horizons the sequel to the Carousel Of Progress was almost a Legend, and was only around for less than 15 years, Horizons would show the future through our eyes the people of the past and the people of tomorrow, Horizons would left you thinking wow if we can Dream it, We really can do it. and what does Mission: Space do? puts you in a 3 min simulator test flight. and they dont make you feel like you actually go any where, they let you know you'll be only 2 feet of the ground in the preshows. So is Faster really better I Think Not. I know that this was not to long ago a all Disneyland based site but there are WDW fans are in here too and Im one of them so, and I care deeply when someone intensionaly or even unintensionaly insults an attraction, or wants it to change , esspecialy when they're mostly fans of another resort bc why do you need to complain its outdated, when most ppl dont really care and just enjoy it the way it is, if your mostly a DLR fan why cant you accept the way things are at WDW and just stick with your DLR if you dont like it, bc only WDW fans should complain bc its our Space Mountain, you can have an oppinion but be careful what you say about certain things bc you may unknowingly offend someone, and by the way Disney is About Families being together Not Thrill Junkies looking for the latest scream, its not Six Flags and it should never be. Sometimes I hear grown adults say the most disrespectful things about attractions that are legends to others for example some ppl want the Carousel Of Progress to become a Flying Saucer attraction sure it would be faster but would it be better??? NO. I thank you for reading this but Im trying to get my point acrossed. I know Im only 15 but I know what im Talking about and for the record WDW's Tomorrowland is not scientific its based on a fun look back at tomorrow, through the eyes of visionaries and the people of the past so WDW's Space Mountain Fits that theme (and I dont mind if i get banned for speaking the Truth but its about time someone did). Thank you and Have Many Magical Days To Come! (one more FYI flying at you I never guess, I Know bc I have my sources and have known for 10 years tyvm).

[Harrison Hightower III]

I agree. I don't want the Classic things changed (single seats, 2 tracks, and the Classic Space sets), just the old retired things (crappy effects, weird music, no music in ride SPACE PORTHOLES!!!!). I only put the last one in because they make me sick. Its like with POTC, keep the goods get some new.


HHIII

[ElecTronic]

I agree. I don't want the Classic things changed (single seats, 2 tracks, and the Classic Space sets), just the old retired things (crappy effects, weird music, no music in ride SPACE PORTHOLES!!!!). I only put the last one in because they make me sick. Its like with POTC, keep the goods get some new.


HHIII
Finally someone sees my point ty :smile:

[quinteros235]

I know I said I was done with this thread but please read this one as if its my first post. "WDW's Space Mountain needs a revamp!" Well I dont think so, when i go WDW's Space Mountain I love it, there is so much movement inside from the vehicles whizzing by to the TTA riding around, I like the fact there are two tracks, I like the fact the is 1 person per row, I also like the fact there is no music, and when i get off WDW's Space Mountain I hear People loving it bc it was fun, Space Mountain is a classic, a classic that I dont think should change, maybe an update But Nothing Major. WDW was/is made different than DLR ON PURPOSE (I have the Imagineering guides and many souces so dont tell me i am wrong ty). They made it different bc they never repeat them selves. "Faster is always better" I dont think that is right all, when they knocked down Horizons and built Mission: SPACE, sure its faster but is it anything in comparison to Horizons, Horizons the sequel to the Carousel Of Progress was almost a Legend, and was only around for less than 15 years, Horizons would show the future through our eyes the people of the past and the people of tomorrow, Horizons would left you thinking wow if we can Dream it, We really can do it. and what does Mission: Space do? puts you in a 3 min simulator test flight. and they dont make you feel like you actually go any where, they let you know you'll be only 2 feet of the ground in the preshows. So is Faster really better I Think Not. I know that this was not to long ago a all Disneyland based site but there are WDW fans are in here too and Im one of them so, and I care deeply when someone intensionaly or even unintensionaly insults an attraction, or wants it to change , esspecialy when they're mostly fans of another resort bc why do you need to complain its outdated, when most ppl dont really care and just enjoy it the way it is, if your mostly a DLR fan why cant you accept the way things are at WDW and just stick with your DLR if you dont like it, bc only WDW fans should complain bc its our Space Mountain, you can have an oppinion but be careful what you say about certain things bc you may unknowingly offend someone, and by the way Disney is About Families being together Not Thrill Junkies looking for the latest scream, its not Six Flags and it should never be. Sometimes I hear grown adults say the most disrespectful things about attractions that are legends to others for example some ppl want the Carousel Of Progress to become a Flying Saucer attraction sure it would be faster but would it be better??? NO. I thank you for reading this but Im trying to get my point acrossed. I know Im only 15 but I know what im Talking about and for the record WDW's Tomorrowland is not scientific its based on a fun look back at tomorrow, through the eyes of visionaries and the people of the past so WDW's Space Mountain Fits that theme (and I dont mind if i get banned for speaking the Truth but its about time someone did). Thank you and Have Many Magical Days To Come! (one more FYI flying at you I never guess, I Know bc I have my sources and have known for 10 years tyvm).
:eek: Whoa, that was a big slap in the face for me. But you're right. About SM and Horizons. I miss that ride. I mean, Horizons never really impressed my brother or my sister, but at least it didn't make me sick. I read "The Imagineers Guide to the Magic Kingdom" (BTW, get it! It's good, and for only $9.50!) and the first thing I read, "We Never Repeat Ourselves!" I guess that's true. They repeat the Fantasyland dark rides, but the other rides they were all different in their own way (i.e. Big Thunder Mountain).
ElecTronic, thank you for typing this out. After watching a downloaded ride video, the only thing they should "update" is paint work, and put a roof over the lift and the queue line. It does sort of ruin the darkness of space.

[ElecTronic]

Your welcome and I thank you for respecting my opinion, and for seeing things from my perspective. Im not trying to change your opinion but like I said Im just getting the point accrossed. And Thank you again, I think I finally got that result lol. P.S. you should really ride it yourself and you might see why I love it :smile:, because videos sometimes make things worse than they appear (esspecially when The Seas with Nemo and Friends Video was released {I love what they did with that may I add} but many ppl thought it looked terrible when it actually looked like The Imagineers did a pretty good job it wasnt the peoples oppinions its just the video didnt make it appear like it actually was). Because when your up and off the chain lift you can see down there and to me its kind of a beautiful sight bc you can see everything but still sort of believe your in space in a way bc ppl dont mind that its outdated bc WDW's Tomorrowland is supposed to be a retro future. And when your on SM you dont feel as if you are separated from the people of the outside world, you feel the world on the move when your going up the chain lift like the Imagineers wanted you to feel. TTA is usually coming by as your going up. and a train from the other side is usually within view on the other side so SM feels appropriate the way it is. Because it fits its theme perfectly. Just as DLR's Space Mountain fits its theme perfectly. So I Thank you once more and any one else who understands my post and realizes the reason for the other side of this Discussion.

[quinteros235]

Your welcome and I thank you for respecting my opinion, and for seeing things from my perspective. Im not trying to change your opinion but like I said Im just getting the point accrossed. And Thank you again, I think I finally got that result lol. :smile:
Uhh...ElecTronic, bad news. Do you see the poll result? More people acutally want a revamp! this may create problems:confused: Then again, 7 people say that the ride is fine the way is it.

[ElecTronic]

I realize that but if at least my point is heard and understood I have done my job, Thank you for your concern. :smile: and by the way I added a little more to my last post. ;) (I kind of like to do that as you can probably tell lol)

[Indy4evr]

hey, u know whatz kinda funny? DLR's SM is kinda like MK's Splash M (in the sense of updated looks and 2 across seating) and MK's SM is like our Matterhorn! go figure eh? (2 be honest, if they were able to add music i don't think it would hurt.)

[PeoplemoverMatt]

I nicknamed WDW's SM "Space Matterhorn" for good reason. :smile:

-- PMM :cool:

[CostaFreak]

hey, u know whatz kinda funny? DLR's SM is kinda like MK's Splash M (in the sense of updated looks and 2 across seating) and MK's SM is like our Matterhorn! go figure eh? (2 be honest, if they were able to add music i don't think it would hurt.)

Sadly, if they added a soundtrack now, it'll have the same fate DLR's version did. It will collapse. Remember, all I'm saying is make new tracks, keep the single seating, new effects, and make the track layouts somewhat the same as they are now, but just sinc it to the old Dick Dale soundtrack and keep TTA. If they work fast, it should be done by 2010.

[Indy4evr]

yeah, i liked the dick dale soundtrack. but how would it collapse? the weight of the speakers?

[CostaFreak]

The speakers put extra weight on the cars when DLR put it in, causing the track to were out. If the trains ran a few more months longer than when it closed, the track would have collapsed. That was really the reason why SM had that long refurb.

Double post added here___________________

Just a little thing I found out about WDW's version. If you ever see a video of it with the lights on, from the second the train dispatches to the end of the wide part of the lift hill, it actually mixes in perfectly with the slow part of the old Dick Dale soundtrack (that pause before the strobe tunnel needs to shortened by about 3 seconds for it to completly mix).

[snowwhite-4ever]

I'm not so sure. The scenory, and the buildning is fine the way it is, but the coaster is very boring, and non-space-alike. Maeby they should build it like that one in Paris, it's very good actually.

[ChicagoCarless]

Stepping back from the debate for a moment, consider the totality of what happened in Anaheim. When they closed SM and announced the refurb (the very day before I got there for one of my cross-country visits!!!), people had the same reactions and said the same things as has everyone in this (really interesting) thread.

Many DLR SM fans wanted a sweeping re-imagining of the Anaheim ride, wanted loops, and LIMs, and the like. Many others, however, were saddened, or simply terrified, at the prospect that the classic and beloved nature of the ride would be lost forever in the refurb.

While not eveyone was satisfied, I think Disney hit the nail on the head with the Anaheim refurb. In a sense, everything was updated but nothing was changed. The track was torn out and rebuilt in exactly the same layout that people knew and loved, only now it felt faster and smoother. A simple swirling starfield created with 1970s technology was replaced with a simply swirling starfield with 2000s technology, letting the star patterns virtually bubble everywhere and envelop you. The darkness was made darker, making the ride speed and the experience of the starfield really pop. The trains, though updated and with a far more reliable music system, remained very, very true to the original design. The lifts were given more bells and whistles and whimsy (and, thank God, the blue-light tunnel that has always been a nice treat in MK's version), while not negating the original ethic of the ride experience. And the queue and loading areas were snazzed up and in a way that enhanced the original design.

In other words, the baby was not thrown out with the bathwater. Disney basically improved the essential qualities of the Anaheim ride by rebuilding it in its original likeness with contemporary technology to improve the experience of that quirky, 1970s originality.

I think that's what MK's SM needs. It doesn't need to clone any other Space Mountain attraction. It doesn't need its two tracks replaced with one, its tight turns and twisty nature taken away, its remembered-by-heart lift hill and layout replaced with LIMs and loops. If they did that in Orlando--just like if they had done that in Anaheim--it would never, ever be the classic ride it once was. (Imagine tearing down the Coney Island Cyclone, replacing it with a modern, steeel looper, and asking people to love it just the same as the creaky, thrilling, wooden original?)

WDW can--and has--built newer, more thrilling, more modern coasters. That's a wonderful thing. But without knowing the classic, old attractions, we lose a reference for enjoying and truly appreciating the new, modern ones--and vice versa. There's room in the World for new modern classics and carefully refurbed, essentially preserved old classics.

If they ever do overhaul MK's SM, I hope they treat it the same way they did in Anaheim. I would want it to be the best Magic Kingdom Space Mountain it could possibly be.

While still being, absolutely, Magic Kingdom's Space Mountain.

[jorgetheviking]

My opinion is WDW is so much bigger than the rest of the Disneys in the world. I live in Florida and if they closed a ride like Space Mountain for a long time for a rehab guests would complain like crazy which will cause the park to quit in the middle of the rehab and reopen the ride which will make it half-done.
Yes a rehab would be nice but the truth is if they do a rehab its not going to be anything major. I remember when Big thunder Mountain was closed because Disneyland's derailed. I saw people arguing with employees in Frontierland.

Disney should add a soundtrack thats different from Disneylands and maybee get some cars that look like rockets.

[DisneyParksFan]

I'm sure they wouldn't quit in the middle, the refurb might be rushed to re-open the ride ahead of the original projected time.
Sooner or later, it will have to be refurbished. Hopefully that refurb will happen before something major happens, which by then it will be too late.

Take for example, in the town that I live in, there's this main road that runs down through the middle of their historic district. The town has been putting off the much needed construction on that road to improve its conditions. The current state of the road is getting worse while the work it needs is being pushed back because it is in fact a major road that connects to another major road. While they push back the improvements, the road weakens and the property value of the surrounding historic buildings lowers.

I think sometimes it is best to take care of a problem before there ever is a problem, just in case.


~DisneyParksFan

[WDITrent]

Peoplemover would not allow for the darkness in our Space Mtn. that everyone raves about here for WDW. Yes WDW's came first as Space Mountain, but our Matterhorn came first. So Magic Kingdom's Space is an unoriginal original. :smile:

-- Peoplemover "What?" Matt

Okay: First of all,
The TTA doesn't have to be and isn't lit now, so it wouldn't matter for the darkness factor.

I think the track is fine. No one can tell it's the Matterhorn unless you really try to think about it or research it (however, I do think the track should be replaced not for a new layout, but for making the ride smoother). Space Mountain doesn't need that big of an overhaul, just maybe some new projections, enhancements, and surprises.

By the way, has anyone noticed that unlike Disneyland, only one star every once and a while shoots across space? At Disneyland, ALL of it moves!

[rememberthemagic89]

Heyy this is my first post!

Space Mountain is one of my favourite rides and I would like to share my experiences with everyone.

I have visted Disneyland California, Walt Disney World Florida and Disneyland Resort Paris. Out of the 3 resorts, Disneyland Paris' SM is the best by a long shot. Being a bit of an adrenaline junkie, I love inversions and the thrill of a coaster, & I find the Californian & Floridian SM's just great as they are, but Paris just 'rockets' [sorry about the pun!] above them all.

The whole queing area feels more convincing, in the dark with dimmed lighting and neon colours and astrological jargon all over the place, with a soundtrack, plus a feature [unsure if the other 2 SM's have] with sections of the wall that have a cage where you see and hear the rollercoaster crash past you; a real adrenaline pumper whilst you are in the line!

The ride in general is more believable that you have really been on a ride to the moon and back! With an amazing blast off at a 45degree angle with smoke and the launch shell moving with every 'lift off'. The ride consists of a brilliant soundtrack with sound effects and enhanced lighting throughout the ride. The overall experience of Paris' SM is much more satisfying and the other SM's have a lot to live up to for Disney fans who have ridden the Paris coaster.

I think that the recent upgrade of SM in DLRCalifornia was a wasted oppourtunity, with WDW a oppourtunity waiting to happen! In all fairness, the DLRP is much much smaller and has less funding that the American Parks, and Space Mountain is one of the ONLY thrill rides in the park, with the only other coaster type ride being Rock'N'Roller Coaster in Walt Disney Studios.

I have visted Walt Disney World from a very young age and Space Mountain is admittedly my first coaster experience, and Im all for keeping Disney's orginal dream alive. But nowadays, the business is competative. Florida has a lot of competition with Islands of Adventure & Busch Gardens, & the same in California with Universal Studios & Six flags.

I think to bring some thrill back to the 'space travel' idea, and to bring back a few adrenaline fans who have lost faith in the 'Disney Thrills Department', it would pay for Disney to recreate the same or similar ride as the Paris SM with inversions and high speeds and the whole shebang inside the shell of the current WDW SM!

Change is inevitable, as we can see from recent refurbs of POTC and the current refurb of Haunted Mansion. I feel that we will always remember the traditional SM WDW for its distinctive exterior, it is a Disney landmark. But a thrilling new and innovative ride would be a real enhancement on the whole Disney experience.